Evidence of meeting #20 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was seals.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Kearley  General Manager, Carino Company Limited
Wilf Aylward  Independent Sealer, As an Individual
Rene Genge  Professional Sealer, As an Individual
Jean Richard Joncas  President, Multi Species Fishermen Oldfort-Blanc-Salbon

10:20 a.m.

Professional Sealer, As an Individual

Rene Genge

They were going to kill the grandkids and were going to come and skin her alive, terrible language. That continued for probably a month or so, until I got back home, anyway. When I got back home, I got on a couple of times and things changed.

The RCMP came and tapped our phones and got all the messages and things. They put an investigation into it for probably close to a year. They couldn't charge any of those people because they could not identify their voices, although they had their numbers.

Then they took eleven of them to court, I think, in P.E.I. They got a measly $1,000 fine each.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Should protesters be allowed on the ice, and if not, why not?

10:25 a.m.

Professional Sealer, As an Individual

Rene Genge

Protesters? No, they should not be allowed on the ice. What other thing can you go at and have someone interfering in your livelihood, stopping you from doing it? They're out there trying to stop you, and you're going around with a high-powered rifle on your back, or whatever. No, they should not be there.

Why are they there? Why do they have permits to go there? What's the reason for it?

They shouldn't even be allowed in our airspace with helicopters, with those big high-powered videocameras they have. That shouldn't be allowed.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

As you actually seal, how close can they come, under law, right now?

10:25 a.m.

Professional Sealer, As an Individual

Rene Genge

Thirty metres.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Thirty metres.

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy

Thank you very much, Gerry.

Mr. Simms.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Thank you very much.

I have a couple of quick questions, right at the start, because I want to clarify a few facts. I'll get into that situation later, about the protest.

Let me talk about something that you brought up, John, the contracting out to the private sector. Are you talking about observers here, in this situation?

10:25 a.m.

General Manager, Carino Company Limited

John Kearley

No, I'm talking about having a call centre or something to handle the hails from the sealers to DFO.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Okay. Can you touch on what you need, and what has created the situation we're in now and why we need to contract out more services?

10:25 a.m.

General Manager, Carino Company Limited

John Kearley

Down through the years, of course, from the beginning, the vessels over 35 feet in length, 35 feet to 64 feet 11 inches, were required to hail. These vessels are registered. Right now, a lot of the hunt or a lot of the harvest takes place with smaller vessels, those under 34 feet 11 inches. These people are not required to hail.

As I said in my presentation, the processors are required every day, by 10 o'clock, to prepare a report for DFO to tell them what we think is out in the field. We have people around the province and on the Magdalen Islands who are picking up our seals for us. We are required to tell them what's out there. So they use these numbers to come up with the animals that have been taken on a daily basis.

However, of course, there seem to be some problems, in that their staff will sometimes double-count the numbers that we present to them, and as I said, they will close down the harvest when there are still animals to be taken.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Essentially, that's what it comes down to, that you close down the harvest prematurely, and then that's going to affect people like Wilf and Rene in this situation.

10:25 a.m.

General Manager, Carino Company Limited

John Kearley

Yes, but it affects us as well, because we make decisions as a company on how much we're going to pay for seal pelts, based on the entire TAC being taken. We know what the TAC is to be. For instance, last year we knew the TAC would be 325,000 animals. So we make a financial decision based on getting the entire TAC, that it be taken, and we compete with other processors to get all this TAC.

If the TAC in a certain area--as happened this year on the front--is not taken, then the decisions that we make may be bogus, in that we would not be able to procure sufficient animals to go to our buyers. Then we have buyers who are not pleased because we couldn't fill their order, so then it affects us in the future as to what they would probably pay for seal pelts.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

So given the fact that the price of a seal pelt now is over $100--which we haven't seen, I think, ever--in this case what you're seeing is a mad dash for the quota that's out there. Is that what you're seeing?

10:25 a.m.

General Manager, Carino Company Limited

John Kearley

It's a mad dash for the quota that's out there, certainly.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

And these are the problems being created by it. Is that correct?

10:25 a.m.

General Manager, Carino Company Limited

John Kearley

There's no doubt about it.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

And I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but the administration is just not keeping up, as Jean Richard pointed out.

10:25 a.m.

General Manager, Carino Company Limited

John Kearley

That's right. They're not keeping up with the number of sealers and the number of boats that are out there on any given day.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

I just want to touch on something else, but I'll wait until we come around again. Hopefully we will.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy

If you don't go over your five minutes, we're going to try.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

I was in Europe a short time back, and I went toe to toe with some of the politicians on the hunt issue itself. Some of the MPs from Great Britain were actually sympathetic, yet they would never say they were sympathetic to our cause because they know their constituents feel we're being cruel barbarians and what not.

One of the things that catches their ear and actually sort of changes their minds was not going fact for fact, as Rene pointed out. Rene had a good point about doing what we have done before and using logic to overcome emotion. What worked on them was using emotion.

They had this long explanation about how, for first nations, it was a part of their history, yet we don't tell them the story about how it's our history as well. Yes, okay, we're settlers. At the same time, we have well over a hundred years of tradition in this. The fact is that we say to them that we are culturally linked to this, that we're not out there to harvest these animals and to kill whatever's in sight. We respect nature and we respect the fact that the animal is at this level.

They've said we're killing seals at this level. Their biggest argument is that we're killing seals at the level we did back in the fifties, when the population was down. What they don't say is that the population back then was two million, but now we're close to six million. It's a different story entirely when you point this stuff out, but we tie in the emotional aspect of it.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy

Were you looking for an answer on that?

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

I'm just looking to go on and on until someone stops me.

10:30 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!