Fisheries Committee on Nov. 6th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Mr. Manning, a very quick question and a very quick answer.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

On the hail system, I heard a lot of stupid things before I went down there, and I've heard a few stupid ones since I went up there, but I'm telling you, when you have fishermen on the water for four days and can't call in their catches, to expect the fishermen to wait on the water for 96 hours to make a phone call to tell what they have on board.... I guess the only answer to that is there has to be a way, 24 hours a day, however long your season is, to be able to call in the catch. That shouldn't be a very difficult thing to straighten out as to how many people are in the system.

[John Kearley]

It's unfortunate. This year, for instance, the harvest started on Wednesday. Good Friday was two days later. Not every year, but frequently, Easter runs into the main part of the sealing season on the front, especially. The gulf is usually finished by then. Of course, for federal bureaucrats, Good Friday and Easter Monday are holidays. The majority of sealers understand that Good Friday is a holiday. They expect nobody to be around. And if Saturday morning.... I mean, they're willing to wait one day, but to expect sealers to stay for all this time in northern Newfoundland off Labrador in the ice conditions that may or may not be there shouldn't be expected.

I'm not sure that it wasn't done intentionally. The gulf zone was far over. Was it done intentionally to slow down the front sealers to not allow the animals to be taken? I'm not sure.

It's not that there are no people at DFO. There are people there, certainly. It is false to say there isn't anybody there. There are people. However, the people who are needed to make a decision are not available, so they have to wait until Tuesday for that decision.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lunney.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses. You have brought us a lot of interesting information about some practical concerns related to the hunt that are perhaps news and will be useful to us.

I want to make a few comments.

On the hakapiks, I noticed when we had the veterinarians at the committee that science supports the use of the hakapik. I think you're on good grounds. I don't think that's going to be a problem as far as the committee is concerned. We want to make sure you have the tools to do the job safely and effectively.

The things you mentioned about cellphone range, reporting in, the hailing requirements, and answering machine capacities could obviously be addressed a little more effectively. We appreciate your good comments related to that. As far as DFO providing coverage throughout the period of the hunt, these are obviously things that need to be addressed.

I had a question for you about the bleeding out and the quality. Mr. Manning answered that; you've already answered it. I had some other questions that Mr. Byrne addressed earlier.

I know that Mr. Manning has many questions on his mind. So, Mr. Chair, if it's acceptable, I'm going to pass my time to Mr. Manning to move on with his questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

You know, guys, I'm more than happy to allow our Newfoundlanders at the table to ask questions, but we are going to stay within our time limit.

You have three and a half minutes.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

There's lots of time.

I want to get back to the opening dates. There was some question, and maybe Wilf or somebody touched on those. In the past couple of years, have the opening dates been efficient? Would you like to see them later, or earlier? A lot of concerns in the fishery in Newfoundland have to do with the opening dates. I just wonder about your point of view on the opening dates.

[Wilf Aylward]

On the opening dates, from our point of view in area 5, we would probably along with the fifth or the sixth or something like that--a little earlier. Last year, it seems to me, there was not so much ice as there normally is. The last two years have been pretty mild.

I think all sealers would agree that we just barely made it last year to get our seals. We had that gale and northeast wind. The ice went into the straits, and there was nothing caught after. We just barely made it. The twelfth is pushing it. Most of our boat sector would probably go along with the sixth or something like that.

In different years the seals mature differently. Last year they matured early. That has a lot to do with the seals getting in the water earlier. A bit earlier would be nice.

The gulf opened up last year on the fifth or sixth, and they had good seals, didn't they, John? They came in good, didn't they?

[John Kearley]

Yes. Certainly by delaying the opening date somewhat, you allow the animals to mature. With a quota of x number of animals, by delaying the opening date to the appropriate date, whatever that should be--as Wilfred mentioned, it changes from year to year as the animals mature differently--you maximize your take, and that is important. Rather than taking ragged jackets, you are taking prime beaters, which is a lot better for the sealers and the companies.

[Wilf Aylward]

I wouldn't push it to the twelfth. The twelfth seems to be a bit late in our area now.

[Jean Richard Joncas]

For us, the opening date was a problem from 1995 to 2005. We were almost excluded from the hunt at this time because with the early opening date in the Maggies--we're part of the gulf--we couldn't participate in the hunt. When the seals were in front of my home, I was either iced in or the quota was caught.

I think last year the four or five regions that participated in the hunt decided to try to go to a regional quota where the region should decide. If there is a problem in the region, the regions can solve the problem. I don't think it's the government that should decide what time my region should decide to hunt. I should decide by the ice conditions and what price I will get for my seals.

I think mostly what we have to clearly define is the regional quotas. We have to define that one and we have to solve it. For us in Quebec, it's the nearest species yet that we've seen five provinces participating in the species and one province getting more than 90% of the species. In the seal hunt, no plans have more than 90% of the seals. That's where we're asking again, if we want to have a good seal hunt--no overrun, everybody participates on legal things--have some basic disagreements between us solved before the hunt comes.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

Then some people in Quebec can get EI, and Newfoundlanders can't.

[Jean Richard Joncas]

This is government.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

There are a lot of things that need to be straightened out here, by the sound of things here this morning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

I appreciate that, and I know that's important, but we're going to go to our next questioner.

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, gentlemen, for your good presentations.

Mr. Genge, I think you referred to the seal hunt being profitable, even though it's very few days. I know it's difficult to answer this, because there are different sized boats and so on. How profitable is it? How big of a percentage of a fisherman's income is it?

[Rene Genge]

Last year in particular, for my crew it worked out to about 20% of their overall income for the fishing season.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

So it's a significant amount.

Mr. Kearley, you talked about quota overruns and the quota not being taken. Probably quota isn't the right word here. It's TAC that we're talking about, right? We don't really have quotas as such in seals. Have the last few years in your estimation been ones that we haven't taken all we could have? That's one question. Related to that is the number that DFO thinks, let's say for this last season, were taken. Given Mr. Bevan's comment about the difficulties of the hail system and inaccurate information from time to time, which may or may not get corrected along the way, how far out do you think DFO's information is in terms of what they think were actually harvested and what you think were actually harvested?

[John Kearley]

I think the information they would give today would be very accurate, as a matter of fact, because all processors are required to send DFO copies of our purchase receipts, the documents that we provide to sealers to show what we purchase from them. These numbers, I would think, are extremely accurate. I would assume their statistics department would scan all this information into their system. So I think the numbers they would have today are fairly accurate; however, during the season the numbers could be somewhat suspect.

In the last five years, I believe, this past year would probably have been the only year that we exceeded the TAC. Previous to this, we had a three-year TAC of 975,000 animals. The first year, I think we sealers had decided we'd go for 350,000. We didn't go near 350,000 that year. The second year we went a little over into the third year. Overall, if my memory serves me correctly, I think we were about 940,000, 950,000, out of the 975,000. This past year, 325,000 was the number that was decided on at the meetings in St. John's last November, and it's my understanding that we exceeded that by a few thousand animals.

I think the numbers DFO would provide today are extremely accurate; however, during the season, as I said, the numbers could be somewhat suspect.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Okay, good.

With respect to the hakapik, you're all opposed to banning it. We support that--I think. When we write our report, we'll actually see if we do. I understand most are not harvested that way.

Mr. Genge, I think your words were that it would “give fuel to the protesters”, and I understand that perspective. But wouldn't it also encourage them, in the sense that they think it's more humane to use a rifle? Would we maybe not have better PR if we took that step, do you think?

[Rene Genge]

You mean ban the hakapik?

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Yes. Would the protesters consider it a more humane step?

[Rene Genge]

Well, probably they would, but you know, they're only looking for reasons. Whatever reason they can get.... They're still out there showing a picture of the whitecoat, which haven't been killed since 1982. So if you stopped using the hakapik, they'd still show a video of you killing them with the hakapik. They attacked me on the ice two years ago. I mean, they were supposed to stay 30 metres away. They came close enough that I had to hit them with my fist to defend myself. And they tried to protest that in court and say they didn't do it. So you know, these people are going to find a way anyway.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Yes, I think I understand that.

[John Kearley]

I think by coming down and saying that the hakapik is not an appropriate tool to use, these groups then will say, “Well look, we've been telling you for years that it's not an appropriate tool to use.” So we're only adding fuel to their fire.

I think the veterinarians have expressed that it's a very good tool for dispatching the animal. It's very efficient, very humane, and there's a safety issue as well. So I think we're making a mistake to even consider banning the hakapik at this particular time.