Fisheries Committee on Nov. 21st, 2006

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

There's $22.5 million here under capital. When I look at small craft harbours--that's $78 million--part of that is used for operations. That falls under operating here, and then there's $22.5 million under capital. I'm just trying to determine out of your $96.6 million how much is actually used for infrastructure in a particular harbour.

[Cal Hegge]

Out of our total budget, out of that $96 million or $97 million, roughly $80 million is spent on the maintenance of the harbours.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

Okay.

[Cal Hegge]

I'm not sure if I'm following you.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

I may not be asking the right question. Could you explain to me the difference between operating and capital? There are two headings here. There is $78 million under operating and $22.5 million under capital. I was taking this capital to mean extra infrastructure.

[Cal Hegge]

I'm sorry, I wasn't on the same page you were, in more ways than one. The $22 million is what we define as major capital, so that means expenditures of over $1 million.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

Okay, so there's $22.5 million in expenditures over $1 million, whereas the $78 million would be--

[Cal Hegge]

Yes, the $78 million would include minor capital plus salaries, etc., and that sort of thing.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

If we could just zero in on Atlantic Canada for a moment, including Quebec, do you have an approximate value or amount for the number of dollars needed to bring the small craft harbours up to par?

[Cal Hegge]

I don't have the information by region, if that's your question. The other figures we've just been discussing are our estimates, based on that study, of what we would need for the whole program to bring the harbours up to par.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

I wasn't sure if I was following Mr. Blais and his questions, but would I be correct in saying that you people believe that you would need $42.5 million per year for capital under small craft harbours, for the next five years, to address the concerns about the harbour infrastructure? Would that be correct?

[Cal Hegge]

Yes, it's in the range. That would include maintenance funds, without making a distinction between major and minor, but yes.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

Okay. So that would be $42.5 million added on to the $96.6 million.

[Cal Hegge]

Yes. Right now the figure in our budget includes the $20 million, which, as we've discussed, is due to terminate at the end of March 2007.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

That will be on March 31, 2007.

[Cal Hegge]

Yes. That's right, so there will be $20 million off. But our figure right now--let's round it to $100 million--includes that $20 million. Over and above that, we estimate that we would need somewhere between let's say $35 million and $40 million. The study I referred to earlier was a 2002 study. The estimates have gone up due to inflation, etc., so it's roughly in that ballpark, yes.

[Larry Murray]

In terms of what the minister is going forward with to his colleagues, I really can't get into specific details. Obviously there are a number of propositions in play, and certainly the minister himself I think has shown a great deal of concern about the state of small craft harbours, so I think it would be reasonable to assume that he would be trying to move something ahead on that. But in terms of details, it would be kind of inappropriate for me to get into that, I think.

Certainly in terms of where the department might be coming from, you probably have a reasonable idea of the kinds of numbers necessary, which tie in with your report of a few years ago, actually.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

In Canada, when you say core harbours, are these harbours that are under the jurisdiction of DFO?

[Cal Hegge]

Yes, those are the harbours I'm talking about.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

Do you have any idea of the number of harbours you're responsible for?

[Cal Hegge]

Right now our figure is much higher, of course, because it includes harbours that we are hoping to divest.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

That's what I'm trying to get at.

[Cal Hegge]

We have over a thousand harbours we're still responsible for.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

How many of those are you planning to divest? I realize that you need funding to divest them, but how many are you hoping to divest?

[Cal Hegge]

Roughly 350.