Evidence of meeting #15 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wto.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:25 a.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
As I understand it, some countries, such as New Zealand, have emerged as leaders on this front within the context of the negotiations.
10:25 a.m.
Professor, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual
I'm sorry, leaders on what front?
10:25 a.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
In eliminating subsidies. New Zealand has the support of other countries, but which ones? I have heard talk of the United States and Iceland. Is that true?
10:25 a.m.
Professor, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual
Absolutely. Pressure groups have been set up in these countries. There is one group called Friends of the Fish, and the United States, Australia and New Zealand are members. I suspect that Canada is also a member, but keeps it quiet. Then you have the recalcitrants, such as the Japanese, who want nothing to do with all of this. South Korea also heavily subsidizes its fisheries.
The major players fighting against fisheries subsidies include Australia, the United States and New Zealand. But that list is by no means exhaustive.
10:25 a.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
What is more, not all countries—and therefore not all fisheries—fall under the jurisdiction of the World Trade Organization. For example, could a small country with a traditional fishing industry find itself in a situation whereby... Might it be affected?
10:25 a.m.
Professor, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual
The text explicitly places traditional fisheries in the green box.
10:25 a.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Of course, you need an accurate definition of traditional fishery.
10:25 a.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
The same is true for overfishing. Can the cod fishing in the Gulf of St. Lawrence be said to be overfishing?
10:25 a.m.
Professor, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual
As I said, the agreement makes no mention of any specific species. It covers all species and refers the issue of overfishing to international organizations such as the FAO. This is a solution the WTO has chosen to avoid having to deal with the problem. Obviously, the WTO is not an expert body in environmental issues. That is why institutions such as the FAO, which has developed a code of conduct for responsible fisheries, have a key role to play. All the scientific issues relating to fishing stocks—the hot potato, as it were—are referred to other international organizations deemed to be experts in the field.
10:25 a.m.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
You are based not too far from us. Do you accept appointments?
10:25 a.m.
Professor, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual
Yes, of course.
10:25 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Gentlemen, let me just paint you a picture here of what I think may happen, and you can tell me if I'm wrong.
If all my colleagues are fishermen, including me, and the government says, as in the previous committee a gentleman said, there are too many boats chasing too few fish, so the government buys all my colleagues out and I stay behind, and now I'm very profitable because I have all the fish to myself, would that not be considered a subsidy to my enterprise?
10:25 a.m.
Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
Buy-back subsidies, that's what you're talking about.
10:25 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Yes.
So they're gone now, I have no competition, and I have it all to myself--thank you very much, government taxpayer. Is that a subsidy?
10:25 a.m.
Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
It is a subsidy.
10:25 a.m.
Professor, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual
No, excuse me. There is a subsidy if you have two things: a financial contribution by a government—
10:25 a.m.
Professor, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual
—and a benefit to the recipient.
If you don't have a financial contribution by a government, there is no subsidy.
10:30 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
The point is that the government gives, say, Mr. Kamp, $50,000 to stop fishing. He's out of the industry—bye, bye.
10:30 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
So he's gone, Mr. Keddy's gone, and so on. All my competition is gone.
The government, through its tax system, bought them out and said goodbye. Now I'm left by myself, and I have all the fish to myself.
10:30 a.m.
NDP
