Fisheries Committee on May 6th, 2008

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I was mainly concerned about the availability of funding to deal with similar cases, and was wondering if any type of interim funding is available so that you can get to work as soon as you have some type of agreement.

[Claire Dansereau]

In terms of funding, it is part of our regular operations. If we were to determine that studies are required, then we would have to work on another funding plan. In other words, I can't tell you at this time how much it will cost or what needs to be done, but at least we have started the ball rolling, and we will see where our discussions lead.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you.

According to the October 2007 report by the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, the department was responsible for 1,867 contaminated sites. The commissioner also stated that the department had an additional 5,100 properties that should undergo a contamination evaluation.

What was your reaction to the commissioner's concerns?

[Loyola Hearn, Conservative, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

That is certainly a concern to government and to all of us as individuals. The Department of the Environment is working in concert with other departments, like DND, NRCan, and ourselves, if there is leaching into rivers, to set priorities for the sites that are causing or have the potential to cause severe damage. They are identified. A lot of work has been done to try to clean up contaminated sites.

We as Canadians made a terrible mess over the years. Everything was just discarded. It didn't matter whether it was oil drums or old machinery. We did it ourselves. What did you do with the old cans, and so on, from home? Most people threw them out on the beach and the water took them away. Nobody knew we were doing irreparable damage.

Priorities will be set. We will work with other departments and move on the ones that we think are causing it, and then try to work down the line to get them all done. It's a challenge.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Did the department set a deadline for the determination of contaminated sites?

[Claire Dansereau]

An action plan was prepared after the report was published. No deadlines have been set because we are continuing to analyze the situation in order to determine the scope of the problem. We have no set deadline, but we have an action plan.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque.

Ms. Bell.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister, for your answers to my questions previously. That leads me to my next question on salmon enhancement.

Because of the lack of salmon and the dim predictions, as you so rightly point out, what measures and increases to the salmon enhancement program are in these estimates and this budget?

[Loyola Hearn, Conservative, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

We started some time ago. In fact, shortly after we came to the department, one of the areas that was drawn to our attention, and this year quite often, was the salmon fishery in British Columbia, which covers a large chunk of territory. We have met with a lot of the groups involved.

You have in British Columbia—forget the 541 registered environmental groups and such—a number of groups set up that are designed to improve the stocks; for salmon in particular, you even have a Fraser basin group. You have a number of major players, who work together, by the way; we've managed to bring a number of them around the one table. You also have people working with other species, sturgeon and whatever. We've seen very good results.

We try to look at some of the specific problems, where we can zero in and do something worthwhile and do it quickly. One that comes to mind is the Cultus Lake salmon, an endangered species, or one that we want to list but haven't, because to do so would shut down the fishery on the Fraser. We've committed to trying to enhance that stock by reducing opportunities to catch; we've closed the fishery earlier than we should to protect Cultus Lake. But we've also worked on the lake itself with local groups, improving the environment, cleaning up the habitat, taking out predators. We are seeing results. All of these things can be done by working together.

We've added a number of new habitat people. We've rearranged within the department: we've added a number of enforcement officers and habitat people, but we've also done some moving around to move habitat people to the areas where habitat is the priority and enforcement people to where enforcement is the priority, rather than duplicating and wasting time.

So the total package is coming together. Claire or David, one of you might want to add specifically to that.

[David Bevan]

We've stabilized the funding for the salmon enhancement program, but what we don't have stabilized is the environment we're working in. We have a wild salmon policy that we'd like to complement by the work of the salmon enhancement program. We have to re-evaluate how that program will run into the future, because when we established these hatcheries, it was a different environment, and we had different marine survival, etc. We need now to look at where we're going to be operating in the next 20 or 30 years as we reinvest in this infrastructure and determine how we can use it to help preserve what we can preserve and augment what can be supported by the marine environment.

[Catherine Bell, NDP, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I'm glad to hear you're looking at the hatcheries, because I've been visiting hatcheries around the riding and on the island, and some of them are almost at the end of their lives; they need a big injection. What commitments are you making to getting them modernized, with an eye to the future? I think that's important.

[Loyola Hearn, Conservative, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Working with the local groups and agencies, we have investment funds on both coasts now that are used for salmon enhancement. We have a number of people who are extremely dedicated. Yesterday, in fact, I presented recreational fishery awards to people who basically give their lives. A lot of them are retired people who spend a lot of their time, but some of them are very active; some of them are young people.

Also, a lot of work has been done in the schools. I think that's laudable, and certainly I encourage members, when you get a chance, to go into the schools and talk about preserving the resource and getting involved and experiencing the joys of seeing our fish, of sitting on the bank. Whether you're catching or looking doesn't matter. To be there when the sun is setting and the trout are jumping, or the salmon.... You can't buy stuff like that. The more we get people to buy into this, the more we get them involved in the organization.

Government can't do everything. We can provide some funding, we can provide expertise, we can provide direction, but we have so many challenges when we're fighting the environment.

One thing I didn't add when I was talking to you before about concerns with some of the salmon stocks is about predation. The first time ever I've heard concerns coming out of British Columbia came during the last couple of trips I've taken out there.

In the first few years, predation was never mentioned, certainly on the east coast, but in almost every salmon river or trout stream now you have a pile of seals parked at the mouth of it, or sea lions, or whatever. They don't eat turnips, as Morrissey Johnson once said.

Consequently, we have to be careful of the balance of nature. If you get a lot of big predators just sitting there waiting for home delivery, our stocks are going to be decimated in a hurry.

Putting it all together, we need the involvement of people. And I think we're getting that; I really think we are. But it goes right from the hatcheries through to cleaning up the actual habitat itself and then our laws and rules that will protect the species.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Thank you, Ms. Bell.

Mr. Keddy.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Minister and the rest of the witnesses, for appearing at committee today.

There's a fair amount of discussion about salmon on the west coast. I'm certain we know salmon is a species that's been overused by man in many cases and has suffered from that. My question on salmon is salmon on the east coast and the Salmon Endowment Fund, which we thank you for and which was a big help.

As the minister is well aware, in Nova Scotia the rivers that are flowing westward out of the South Mountain batholith are all suffering, or a majority of them are suffering, from acidification. However, many of the rivers that run into the inner Bay of Fundy are not suffering from acidification; they have a good pH balance. Yet the salmon returns in those rivers are some of the lowest in the province, including the inner Bay of Fundy salmon itself, which is a separate species and is listed under SARA.

We thank you for the money you gave to the Salmon Endowment Fund, but I would expect the inner Bay of Fundy salmon are still being looked at separately by the department. If so, what is the prognosis, and what scientific program have you put in place to enhance that species of fish?

[David Bevan]

Clearly there's been a requirement for the inner Bay of Fundy to establish a recovery plan for that species under the Species at Risk Act, and that's been done. We are also involved in collaborative work on the research, what's causing this problem, because fish have been leaving the river but they aren't coming back. What is causing their demise at sea is still to be determined. We have not been able to find a cause that would then be something we could target to deal with. It's still a big mystery. Work is under way to try to resolve it, to try to find out what's going on, but it's not been evident to us at this point what's causing that problem at sea.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

I would like to be clear on the funding for the inner Bay of Fundy salmon. Is that funding coming out of the $30 million that was put forward for salmon enhancement, or is that separate departmental funding?

[David Bevan]

That's separate, coming out of the species at risk funding. It is a listed species, and we do have a budget for the species at risk legislation.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Thank you for that, Mr. Bevan.

My follow-up question would be on the midshore coast guard vessels we're expecting, I think prior to 2012. In his opening remarks, the minister mentioned the polar class icebreaker in this year's budget, which is certainly needed for a number of reasons--for the safety of our mariners, but also for sovereignty in the Arctic. It was good news to hear that's finally on the way. But when can we expect the first of the midshore coast guard vessels, the replacement vessels?

[Loyola Hearn, Conservative, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

The first one within a couple of years, George?

[George Da Pont, Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

We're targeting to get the first one by the fall of 2010.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Do you know at this time where that vessel is going to be deployed originally? Is it the gulf region, the western region, Newfoundland?

[George Da Pont]

The first four vessels we get will be deployed on the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence to respond first to the maritime security requirements in those areas.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Okay. I was looking for the Atlantic coast on that answer. So when do we get the next four?

[George Da Pont]

We expect that once we get the first vessel we will get another one every three to four months afterwards. So they will come quickly. Once we've dealt with the maritime security issues on the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence, the remaining vessels will be on the east coast.