Fisheries Committee on Nov. 26th, 2007

[Jackey Richard]

ACOA invests in economic development locally. We have had harbour authorities that have been able to access ACOA funding. It goes to the point that when we work out the long-term plans for our harbours, if there are opportunities for diversification it is also considered. Sometimes we've had ACOA come to the table and provide funding to harbour authorities looking to expand or diversify their harbour to satisfy other needs—not necessarily supportive of the fisheries but of other development wants.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

It seems rather to be duplicating the work, doesn't it? DFO spends a lot of time divesting themselves of a harbour to an authority and that authority then goes to another branch of government looking for funding to do work on the harbour, or whatever aspect of it.

[Jackey Richard]

There are two situations in your question, two scenarios. It has happened in the region that we've had harbour authorities that have been part of our core harbour base that have chosen to go off on their own and have naturally volunteered to be divested. Those harbour authorities have proven successful in diversifying themselves and accessing ACOA funding.

Whether that makes sense or not, I think harbour authorities, in the example I speak to, have been able to open the door to more creative opportunities in working with local development commissions and ACOA in seeking alternate means of funding. Whether it be through HRSDC or otherwise, they can become creative-resourceful. But it has also been the case on a few occasions that we've had ACOA participate with harbour authorities to invest in initiatives at harbours whose ownership has not been transferred.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Would it be the same for the west coast? Would they have access to the western diversification fund?

[James Boland]

Yes, they have, and they have access to provincial funds. Most recently there's been a $50 million fund that the province has developed or is marketing to generate economic development on the coast, and some harbour authorities have applied for that kind of funding. It's principally for waterfront development, so it's not simply for the harbours, but fortunately those harbours are the central point for that harbour development. Some of the money will flow through them and improve their capacity and improve transportation in terms of roads and access to the facility. I was alluding earlier to their being very creative in seeking moneys that might be available from other institutions.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

This is my last question for you.

When a volunteer group such as a harbour authority decides...if a couple of them have moved away and they're down to three members and those members are burned out—they can't handle the management or operation of the harbour any more—what happens to that harbour when it's still deemed necessary for commercial or aquaculture activities? What happens to that harbour then?

[James Boland]

Personally, I haven't experienced that yet.

[Jackey Richard]

It has happened in a few cases in the region. In a few of them, the harbour authority was renewed insofar as we were able to get another board to take on the operations. In other cases, the harbour authority that had fatigue to that point was able to work with a harbour authority within the greater area and they amalgamated, with two harbours being managed by one harbour authority.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Would there be plans in place in the event that it couldn't happen? If it's just divestiture, except for the ones you're talking about for 20 years....

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Give a very quick answer, if you would like to do so.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Would DFO take one back?

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

I said thank you, Mr. Simms.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

I mean, Mr. Stoffer. Sorry.

I'm just waiting for an answer. If you want to provide a short answer, you can, but I have to move on.

It has already been answered. Good.

It's Mr. Calkins, is it?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We certainly appreciate the information you've brought forward so far.

At a committee meeting a couple of weeks back, I believe Mr. Hegge and Mr. Bergeron, the director general for small craft harbours, were here. I didn't get a chance to ask this question during the committee meeting, so I'll ask you in the hopes of getting some clarification on this. The deck they brought that day outlined the small craft harbours vision, and the first sentence read, “The existence of a critical national network of harbours, in good working condition, capable of meeting the principal needs of the commercial fishing industry...”. Then it went on to talk about the harbour authorities and so on.

It's my understanding that this vision is being re-evaluated right now. I would just like either of you to share with this committee, first of all, whether it's true that this vision is being looked at. It seems to be outdated, given the fact that we've talked about incorporating or looking at, with regard to small craft harbours, first nations issues and those of the aquaculture industry and those of the commercial sport fishing industry, which my colleague, Mr. Stoffer, brought up. I'm just wondering where that process is right now. Could you describe to me how that process is happening in terms of formulating a new vision for small craft harbours?

[James Boland]

As I alluded to in my opening remarks, we're in the process of developing a strategic plan. The program is 20 years old, or will be in 2008, so in our minds it has evolved over the 20 years. We want to take a look at the best practices that have been determined over the past 20 years and develop a framework and a new vision, possibly, to take us into the next 20 years. So that whole process is under review. It's not complete. We are taking a look at whether we should or shouldn't expand and at what kinds of things we have learned in the past that we want to enhance or eliminate so we can have a much more efficient program in the future.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Who's involved in that process?

[James Boland]

There is a small craft harbours management committee.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Are there consultations with the broader industry, or is it basically within the department?

[James Boland]

Right now it's in the department.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Would it be fair to say, then, that when a new small craft harbours vision statement comes out it will be a product of the department with the approval of the minister? Or will it be a product of the department in consultation with industry? How would that process play out? Would it be brought forward as a draft with some consultation with stakeholders in small craft harbours, or is it basically going to stay within the department?

[James Boland]

I couldn't give you the specifics. At this point in time we're just talking among ourselves about what we could do. I would imagine, and you can't hold me to this, that the minister would be involved in verifying that kind of change, if it is a change. We'd certainly talk to our advisory processes about the changes as well.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

When it comes to divestiture, I know there will be some other people coming before this committee to testify about some of the impact of divestiture. I'd like to talk about sport fishing a little bit, if I may.

When it comes to taking a look at the value, we've thrown some numbers out there, and you brought some numbers. About $1 invested by the government has a $50 return in economic spinoffs and so on. I'm just concerned that sometimes, when it comes to divestiture of some of these harbours, we seem to be divesting recreational harbours, and I'm wondering if there's some confusion about what's a recreational harbour, what's recreational sport fishing, and what's commercial recreational sport fishing.

When I was in Prince Edward Island this summer, I went out a few times on some lobster boats. When they took us out for two hours of fishing, they took out about 14 people at $35 a head. That's about $1,500 for two hours of work. They did that three times a day, so that's $4,500 a day for that boat to go out. At any point in time, on the two trips I went on, if we were lucky we caught 20 pounds of fish. If you divide that out, that's $75 a pound, not to mention all the money we spent on accommodations and what have you. It seems to me that if commercial sport fishing isn't recognized as being an essential part of the small craft harbour study, we could be missing out on a very important aspect of our fishing industry and economy. I would like to get some assurance from you here today that commercial sport fishing will be included in that vision statement or will at least be discussed or talked about within the department.

[James Boland]

You're asking the wrong people here. That's one that could have been directed to Mr. Hegge last week. The deputy will be here next week, so I'd rather you direct those questions to her.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Calkins, for the questions. Thank you, Mr. Boland and Madam Richard, for your interest and assistance to us here today as we proceed with our study on small craft harbours.

Committee members, we will take a short break now until our next witness is prepared.