How much more holding capacity would you like to have?
Evidence of meeting #13 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishermen.
Evidence of meeting #13 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishermen.
Liberal
Chairman, LFA 24 Lobster Advisory Board
I'd like to have another half a million pounds. That's for my own plant; I'm not speaking for the other plants.
Liberal
Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL
You said something that's really piqued my curiosity. You said you've actually formally written to the minister to say that you want a freeze on any licence transfer.
Liberal
Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL
Sorry, Craig. That's quite an event, because of course it means that the value of those lobster licences, the retirement funds of those who currently hold them, so to speak, is held in abeyance.
President, Western Gulf Fishermen's Association
No, you misunderstood. I'll explain it.
Liberal
President, Western Gulf Fishermen's Association
I'll explain it out to you.
What we're asking for is a licence transfer freeze from one port to another, and that's only within the area that I represent; that's the four harbours I represent: Seacow Pond, Alberton, Tignish, and Hardy's Channel. The reason for this is that in those four harbours right now, counting the native fishers, we have close to 300 licences. There are 640 in all of area 24.
All we're asking is that a freeze be put in place until we can get a rationalization plan in place, so that if a licence comes up it can be purchased and shelved. Right now, if lobsters move out in the spring and they are, heaven forbid--and I'm not even going to say the price--at a low price, and Gardner Pinfold has already said it costs $2.95 a pound for a fisherman in P.E.I. area 24 to harvest the lobster. You're hearing them talking about prices that are not much better than this. We're scared there's going to be a fire sale. There's a lot of fishermen in our area who would like to buy a licence to bring them in. There's no sense in putting more effort into an area that's already at its capacity. We're just asking that a transfer freeze be put in place till we get a rationalization plan in place whereby we can go out and purchase licences and shelve them. Right now you can transfer a licence anywhere within the area. And they've been put on before. They have them in area 25 right now. In the north end area of 25...there were a lot of licences transferred up into that area, and their capacity got so heavy that nobody's doing anything.
Basically, that's what we're asking for.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Welcome to Messrs. Avery and Morrissey.
The first question I would like to ask you is about the impact of the grey seals. I raised this issue with a previous witness, Mr. Morrissey, but I think it is important for all members of the Committee to hear these things again, especially about the impact of the grey seal population. They can have a major impact. It is so in Quebec, in the Magdalen Islands. It is huge here also. I would like to hear what you have to say on this subject.
Chairman, LFA 24 Lobster Advisory Board
The grey seal population is exploding in the gulf, and they're a major problem. They're destroying our fishing gear, and we feel they're eliminating the groundfishery. They've turned on to the mackerel and herring now, and we've witnessed them eating lobsters. There's absolutely no control with this animal.
Five years ago in our fishing area you'd catch mackerel and herring. Now you have to sail 20 miles farther away, because the seals are driving the fish farther and farther away. Last year, the only place we could find groundfish was in 180 feet of water, where the sharks are, because the seals won't go out where the sharks are. I don't know what we're going to do with the grey seal, but if something isn't done with them, they're going to eliminate the fishery in the gulf.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Regarding the licence buy-back program, how should this be applied, in your view, in your area? I get the impression that the buy-back program could be very different from one area to another, that it could be spread out over many years in one area and be of much shorter duration in another. I suppose also that the buy-back price would be different from one area to another.
I would like to hear your views on the licence buy-back program specifically in your area, in your fishing area.
Chairman, LFA 24 Lobster Advisory Board
Each LFA would have to come up with its own criteria, because each fishing area is different. Right now in area 24, a licence is more expensive than it is in area 25 or 26A. Each LFA has an advisory committee set up with fishermen from all the ports. To come up with a rationalization program, these fishermen would have to come together and set the criteria.
In a perfect world, we'd love for the federal government to pay for it all. It's not going to happen in reality. Are we prepared as an industry to help? I suspect we are, but we'll only know that when we get farther into the process. We are now working with the federal and provincial governments on a rationalization program. We don't know what the funding is going to be. We'll know that probably in another month or two's time, but we are committed as an association toward rationalization. In area 24, we've already drawn up what's called in the industry a 10-point plan to reduce effort. We have agreed to eliminate 24 licences per fleet over the next 10 years, which is eliminating 51 licences out of area 24. It's self-rationalization. Our 10-point plan could be made available to you if the committee would like to have it. We've committed to reducing our fleets by 51, out of 635. We'd like for the federal and provincial governments to match them.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
You have solutions, you have recommendations that you can provide to us. We too will have to make recommendations soon. But at the same time, you talk about this not being a perfect world, which tells me that you are trying to be realistic.
In this sense what will be the impact, this year and in the following years, if no concrete measures are taken, such as a buy-back scheme in your area?
Chairman, LFA 24 Lobster Advisory Board
That's a good question. What will happen? I really can't tell you. I know there'll be fishermen in their eighties who'll still own fishing fleets, because they'll have no place to sell them. The young people are not lining up to purchase licences. If we have a rationalization program and we buy out some of the fleet and the remaining fleet becomes more profitable, then the younger people will want to come back into it. They will see that they can purchase one, pay for it, and make a living. This would keep our rural communities viable. We can't all move into the city. If we do, then there's going be a lot higher unemployment rate, because then half the civil servants won't be needed. It's a two-edged sword. We need the rural communities along with the urban.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
There is one other aspect that you raised, that of the next generation of fishers. We discussed the licence buy-back and other such measures. What should be done in order to attract the younger generation? Are young people attracted today to fishing? Will they be tomorrow?
Chairman, LFA 24 Lobster Advisory Board
There are some young people entering the fishery right now. If their family is in the fishery and the father is retiring right at the present time, some of them will take their father's fleet. Other than that, there aren't a lot of young people entering. Presently, about 60% of the fishermen are between 55 and 60 to 65 years old. If it's more viable and more profitable if fewer fishermen are on the water, and the ones who remain catch a few extra pounds, then it becomes more financially sustainable for them to enter the fishery.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Gentlemen, thank you very much.
I want to make just a slight correction. I know that our electoral prospects on the Island are always minimal, at best, but the NDP supported the licence buyback program as well. That's just to give you a heads-up on that, but no worries.
We heard on the Magdalen Islands about some of the conservation efforts they're doing. Each lobster fisherman would voluntarily reduce his effort by three traps. There is that kind of thing. Also, you've heard of v-notching and everything else here, but I wonder if you could give a couple of more examples of what you're doing in terms of conservation and working with the other LFAs, the other provinces, and the fishermen in that regard, especially the ones from the Maggies.
Second, in terms of what happened in Nova Scotia last year, we saw an awful lot of vehicles from Southwest Nova in the Halifax area selling lobsters off the back of a truck. Did that happen as well in Prince Edward Island?
Chairman, LFA 24 Lobster Advisory Board
What are the fishermen doing similar to the Magdalen Islands? Is that what your question is?
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Yes, similar to the Maggies, and others, such as v-notching, reduction....
Chairman, LFA 24 Lobster Advisory Board
In area 24, the 10-point plan we drew up for DFO, which was requested, comes into effect in 2011. That's when it starts, and it's over an eight-year period. The fishermen have agreed to reduce by 24 traps per fleet. We've agreed to put a hoop size on that's no larger than six inches. We've agreed to eliminate two days from the end of the season. We've agreed to throw all male lobsters from 81 millimetres and above over on the last day of fishing so that we leave a broader range of males for breeding purposes. What else is there? We've increased the size of our escape mechanisms that are presently on our traps.
When you break it down, by eliminating 24 traps per fleet, it eliminates the use of 774,000 pounds of herring and mackerel that could be left swimming in the water, estimating one pound per trap per day. We have a fuel saving of 400-and-some litres of fuel per vessel, and we eliminate 281 miles of rope from the water, which makes the sea, I guess, a little more friendly for mammals and turtles and whales and wild seals. I guess that goes with it too.
You can read our 10-point plan, Peter. I imagine you can access it from DFO. It's area 24.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
In terms of, again, some lobster fishermen in Southwest Nova and other areas coming to Halifax and selling their lobsters off the back of a truck, did any fishermen in P.E.I. feel they had to do the same?
President, Western Gulf Fishermen's Association
Last year in area 24 there were three or four days, about the third week, that got pretty sticky. I don't know if there were actually any days that boats were tied up. I suspect this year.... We lost another processing plant down east and there are brokers saying they're not buying. I spoke to a gentleman in the department of fisheries in P.E.I. about a peddler's licence myself, yesterday, and apparently he's getting quite a few inquiries. There's fear out there.
One of the reasons there's probably still $25 million worth of processed product in cold popsicle packs and whole frozen lobsters is that the processors took a chance and put it into a not very labour intensive product, and they froze those and got caught with them. There was lots of live product in southwest Nova Scotia, and they got caught with them. Last year, I'd have to say I don't think there was anybody peddling in the stores and parking lots. You look at last year in southwest Nova Scotia; it was the same thing. It only started in December.
I expect this year...as I said, I inquired myself. We have fishermen building cages and stuff, trying to look at ways to haul their own lobsters. As you've seen in my presentation, we were looking at a freezer holding facility, whether it be for bait or lobster products. We feel we may be able to access them.
