Fisheries Committee on March 14th, 2012

[Claire Dansereau]

Well, as we say, we don't know yet if that's where we will be with the budget in the future. In the meantime, we are making sure that the priorities that are really required for science and for decision-making will be met.

So we will make sure there is not that significant an impact.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

So it might not be that there will be these cuts?

[Claire Dansereau]

Well, as in all mains—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

If these cuts come into play, which we suspect they will, will they have a major impact on the scientific information that fishery is able to receive?

[Claire Dansereau]

As I said, we will prioritize in the scientific activities that we need, and I can't predict.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Are you reducing the number of issue-specific science experts on DFO staff? Has there been a reduction? If so, I'd just like to know how many.

[Claire Dansereau]

There has been a change in our approach, which we are currently implementing, as we said earlier, through strategic review, moving towards multi-year science. That's as much as we've done so far.

And the minister has arrived.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

I want to certainly welcome the minister to the committee.

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

It's always good to see you, Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

And very good to see you.

Now, I wonder if there's any possibility we could get an answer—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—on the only thing my fishermen are concerned about and want to know: Is it true that you confirmed to a number of fishermen at the Boston Seafood Show that this massive midshore trawler from the Barry Group, as it's suspected, would receive a licence to be able to fish herring deeper and take more herring? Is it true that they did not catch herring last year, and that this new method, and this bigger vessel, will allow them to catch herring, and possibly end up removing the herring stock from the Gulf of St. Lawrence?

Mr. Minister, I'm sure you're aware of the devastating effect this will have on the fishery. We all know that herring is the food source for all the fishery. I'd like to have this confirmed. Is it true that you have indicated that this vessel has received a licence to fish in the gulf?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

On a pilot project basis, yes, that is true. Similar to what we did last year off the Magdalen Islands, they conducted a pilot fishery and were unsuccessful in that fishery. The pilot project we're trying for this year is on the edge of 4T, a mid-water trawl. It's a one-year pilot project.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

As you can understand, Mr. Minister, this is of great concern to my fishermen.

What would the TAC be for this pilot project?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

I'll leave the technical questions on the TAC to Mr. Balfour.

[David Balfour, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

The quota for this project would be within the 5,000 tonnes that are assigned for the project, which is within the allocation that's provided to the Barry Group. There are no additional herring being provided to the seiner group, other than what is already provided for in the management plan. It will be a well-monitored project, with observers on board and dockside monitors to ensure that the quotas are respected.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I understand quite well, Mr. Balfour. But am I correct in saying that they were not able to catch the quota last year, but because of the change in the gear they will be able to catch the quota this year? Keep in mind that off Fisherman's Bank and Pictou Island, and areas that I represent, the herring catch is way down. Possibly you'll be able to announce today that the quota will go up in these areas, but I would wonder what is the rationale for why this would take place when it seems to me that the catch is going down instead of up. What would be the reasoning? It could be a pilot project, but a pilot project for what?

It's my understanding that they could not catch the herring with the net size they had last year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have now allocated to this group a deeper, larger net that will catch the herring. This means that you're going to take herring that could not be caught previously out of the mix. What will happen if one entire school or family of fish is removed? Where do we go then? Do you have any plan for that?

It's a very serious issue. I was involved in this herring issue. And it's not Liberal-Conservative, it's government, period. It's just that it's wrong, in my view.

[David Balfour]

First, science advice tells us that the herring that congregate south of the Magdalen Islands, at the edge of the St. Lawrence Channel, in area 4T, are a mix of fall-spawning herring, and that—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Fall and spring, you're talking about.

[David Balfour]

It's primarily a mix of fall-spawning herring. This will be the third year of the project. In 2010 this project was able to take primarily fall herring, with a very modest catch of spring-spawning herring, and the seiners used their allocations of spring herring to be able to account for those catches. Last year they did not, as you pointed out, get very successful fishing results, and the reason for that—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

That's easy for you--

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Mr. MacAulay, your time's expired here. I've been more than generous.

[David Balfour]

—is that the herring are congregating at lower depths of water. But the current integrated fisheries management plan in fact provides the authority to allow the use of a mid-water trawl in the herring fishery, so this year it's been decided to allow this project to proceed, all within the quotas assigned to the company, using a mid-water trawl, with the monitoring regime that we have in place in terms of observers and dockside monitors, in order that this company can see if they can harvest the herring they have the quotas to harvest in that area and within the sustainability imperatives that are important to us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. Balfour.

Mr. Minister, I want to say welcome to the committee. It's always a pleasure to have you here.

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

I was almost hijacked by Mr. MacAulay when I walked in the door.