Fisheries Committee on March 14th, 2012

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I'm an Atlantic man, I must say.

In that regard, I do think that your department should take some credit for the rebound in the Atlantic salmon stocks. It's a prime example of what can happen when like-minded groups in both the public and the private sectors work together. My only plea is a one-word plea: more. Those programs really work, and they're the kinds of programs that people actually want.

In terms of the Species At Risk Act, one species I'm very concerned about in inland Canada is the sturgeon. The fact that it is potentially a SARA-listed species has some tremendous potential impacts on Manitoba's hydro development, potentially in the order of $2 billion. Again, is that a situation we can work on to ensure that those developments can proceed, and that these species will be conserved?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

I might defer that to somebody on staff here who has more knowledge about the sturgeon than I do. I know we have our sturgeon in Atlantic Canada as well. Specifically to projects....

[David Balfour]

In a general sense, we'd be looking for opportunity for mitigation so that there could be a way forward to allow economic activity to occur, while at the same time protecting a species at risk. That would be the basis of engagement we'd have in this project, as we would with others.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I had a meeting with people from the Canadian Hydropower Association, and they were very concerned about the Species At Risk Act, as you know. One particularly egregious example was where they were stocking the river with sturgeon that they paid for and raised themselves. If one of those fish had become entrained, they would have likely been in legal jeopardy. That's not a failure of your department; that's a failure of the act itself. I think that the Fisheries Act and the Species At Risk Act are two acts we need to look at.

I want to just get back to the habitat enforcement side of things, Minister. Do you think that today's habitat enforcement programs that deliver very few results, in my view, can be refocused to become enabling programs to assist local communities right across the country to enhance and conserve fish populations of interest to those local communities? Is there a possibility of refocusing those efforts on something you were discussing a minute ago?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

There's a lot of that now. In British Columbia, for example, we have people who work with local groups for stream enhancements and those types of things. If we can refocus ourselves, perhaps we may be able to spend more time in those areas, but it's premature at this point. We're just looking at everything in general.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I have one more question.

In terms of the Pacific salmon enhancement programs, can you describe them? Those are multi-million-dollar fisheries, and I'm a big fan of salmon enhancement programs on the west coast. Are they still going, and are they being funded at a level that they can be effective?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

Let me defer that again to Mr. Balfour. He'd know the specifics.

[David Balfour]

Going back to Roch Huppé's presentations on main estimates, there are no reductions to the budgets for the salmon enhancement program. That's a program that is a mix of hatchery operations, semi-natural production, and a lot of collaborative work that's done with community-based organizations to produce salmon and to restore and protect their fish habitat. It does make a direct contribution to both the fisheries and to the departmental implementation of the wild salmon policy.

[Claire Dansereau]

We will keep a close eye on that program, though, because there have been some projects in the past that have actually created some harm to some of the wild species. So we do keep an eye on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Minister, I don't even recall if I welcomed you. If I did, I will again. It's very good to have you here. And I have a number of questions.

Fisheries are very important where I come from, and I think you understand that. Do you believe advisory groups are important in the process? Do you consult with advisory groups and take their recommendations? Just how do you handle that?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

Well, advisory groups are obviously important to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. We consult on a regular basis with many people, and obviously we take their advice, and if there are opportunities for us to use that advice, we will.

First-hand knowledge, dealing on the ground with people who are actually living what they live, that's the type of information we need to make decisions.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

Did you discuss with the herring advisory group before you made the decision to give the Barry Group this quota, which as far as I can find out is not very acceptable to anybody who's involved in the herring fishery?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

Well, my understanding is that there was a meeting of that committee last week or the week before, but Mr. Balfour has the details. I believe he was there.

[David Balfour]

I wasn't at that meeting, Minister, but it did take place last week. That meeting was primarily focused on advice around setting TACs for the spring- and fall-spawning herring stocks. Also at that meeting, there was a reporting out of the results of the pilot fishery 4T on the edge of the St. Lawrence channel and the results for 2011.

At that meeting, the department did inform the participants that we were going to allow the participants in the project the use of mid-water trawl in the 2012 project, as is provided for already in the integrated fish harvesting management plan.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

What you're telling me, Mr. Balfour, is that there was no consultation with the herring advisory group, that the department informed them as to what was going to take place. Would that be correct, just for the record? Or was there discussion on whether this should or should not happen? It seems to make sense to me that if you have an advisory group, perhaps you might look for some advice from them before you make the decision. All I want to know is whether you did.

[David Balfour]

At this meeting—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Or did you in previous meetings? Did you discuss with the herring advisory group as to whether this quota should be given to the Barry Group? That's all I want to know.

[David Balfour]

The Barry Group has its quotas as a seiner. There has been no creation of quotas as a result of this.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I stand corrected, Mr. Balfour. It was the change in vessel and the change in the type of net—the larger net that can go deeper.

You explained quite clearly to the committee that this is a quota they have, but this is a quota they couldn't catch. And in Prince Edward Island they cannot catch their quota either.

I just want to know if you discussed with the advisory group that you and the department or the minister were going to allocate whatever—a trial run or whatever it is in the fishery—in order for them to get 5,000 tonnes of herring, when everybody else in the Atlantic region cannot catch their herring.

Was there discussion or was there not?

[David Balfour]

The 5,000 tonnes is the allocation this company had in 2011 and will have again in 2012.

A mid-water trawl is permitted in the herring fishery and is provided for already in the integrated fish management plan. On the basis of the results of the experiment in 2011, where we discussed the herring were congregating at lower levels in the water column, we are going to permit the company to use a mid-water trawl in order that they have a better opportunity of harvesting what is—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I am aware.

[David Balfour]

—a quota they have been provided, which was established within the sustainability limits on the basis of scientific advice, a quota they're provided for. This is in the same way we would work with other gear groups to see how we could find ways and means to improve their ability to harvest their quotas too.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Do we expect that the quota for Prince Edward Island—off Fisherman's Bank and other areas—will go up or go down? What do you expect will take place? You must have the information. You have the scientists. You have the numbers.

[David Balfour]

There's scientific advice that was presented at the herring advisory meeting last week that is suggesting that the spring-spawning herring stock is slightly inside the critical zone, which will likely mean that there will be advice coming forward for us to look at a reduction in TAC on spring herring.

The fall-spawning herring has dropped slightly into the cautious zone. Again, we'll have to consider that in terms of TAC, but—