Fisheries Committee on Dec. 10th, 2013

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I agree, and are you not involved? Are you not involved in trying to help that?

[David Bevan]

We're supportive of it, but the responsibility is with the province and they are taking action, as I understand it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Chisholm.

[Kevin Stringer]

We should add about the Maritime Lobster Panel, which you asked about, that it was to the three maritime provinces. We've worked with the maritime provinces to see what their response is going to be. There were about five specific recommendations for DFO, even though it wasn't our panel. We are looking at those.

We will work with provinces, but also with industry, in terms of responding. There are five specific ones for DFO, but a number of others that really affect us when they're talking about seasons and management approaches, etc. We do see it as a really good opportunity to work with industry and with provinces in terms of addressing what is a major fishery and a challenge.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I want to address some of the SARA issues that the department is dealing with. The question of what a species is, I think, fairly relevant, because it's sliced and diced so far that eventually every single individual will be its own species.

One in particular is the sucker. I took the trouble to look up the scientific name and it's catostomus catostomus, which is the longnose sucker which, if you look at Scott and Crossman, is distributed all across the country.

How could that particular species be a SARA-listed species when going by its scientific name it's distributed almost right across the country?

[David Bevan]

I think COSEWIC is the body that determines it. They're not looking at, for example, a species being limited to the Latin name, the taxonomy, that way.

They're saying that if you have discrete populations.... For example, there's the sockeye issue with Cultus Lake and Sakinaw Lake. Those were deemed to be discrete because they were genetically differentiated from the other stocks. Even though they're all sockeye, they were treated as a separate population. That's how the act works.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Yes, but that gets into a hell of a box because there are thousands of lakes in Canada where there are discrete populations of pike that do not interact with any other populations of pike. So are we now saying the northern pike is potentially, given that the fish is, again, abundant right across the country.... We could potentially have listed species, listed pike sub-subsection species, all across the country. That's clearly ridiculous, isn't it?

[David Bevan]

I think it's to differentiate between populations. The scientific view was that the Sakinaw Lake and Cultus Lake populations had been persistent in those areas even through the ice age. They were in ice shadows in terms of being protected by mountains, etc., so the view was that they were separate. That doesn't apply to everything.

I don't know if you know more scientifically on this, Kevin.

[Kevin Stringer]

Another example is cod, where you've got different “species” of populations of cod. Some of them are threatened and some of them are endangered as proposed by COSEWIC, and it is a challenge.

I do think it comes back down to genetics and population areas. Some would say it's an art more than a science, but there apparently is a science to it and COSEWIC establishes those things.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

The problem is listing species under SARA, or a subspecies or a subpopulation of subspecies, can have devastating community impacts on people, real people and real jobs. I don't think we can afford the arbitrariness any more.

What's the status of the Asian carp exclusion program in the Great Lakes? Where are we with it, given that this committee did a study on aquatic invasive species?

[Kevin Stringer]

Government provided $17.5 million, I think, over five years for Asian carp. You asked what we are doing with the funding—we've talked about that in the past—and what we actually think is happening with respect to Asian carp. There are concerns. There's been a number of cases where an Asian carp is picked out of the lake, or in a river that's near the lake, which is part of—and this is Lake Erie, by the way—the Great Lakes basin.

We've done tests to see.... There was one that was 41 inches, but it was triploid which means it was sterile, which means it was used for aquaculture purposes.

There are some that have been reported on the U.S. side, in Ohio's Sandusky River, that there are concerns about. There are eDNA tests that we do constantly which suggest that we do not believe there's evidence that it's been established.

I was at the Great Lakes Fishery Commission meetings last week, and I was asking the scientists whether they believe it's established. There's no evidence that it has been established, but there is more and more concern. There's more and more concern, not about the Chicago sanitary canal, but other vectors that they may be able to get in on.

We are ever vigilant, working closely with the U.S. It's a major topic at the IJC and the Great Lakes Fishery Commission and Great Lakes Executive Committee, but it remains a challenge.

That's basically where we are. Lake Erie is the current challenge, I would say.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Sopuck.

Mr. Donnelly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On November 28, the DM mentioned he would report back to this committee on the action the department is taking on the seven specific Cohen recommendations. I'm wondering if we can expect that report before the year end.

[Nadia Bouffard]

Before the year end? Yes, that's possible.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

The fall 2012 report of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development noted Canada's slow progress in establishing marine protected areas, or MPAs. The scientists indicate that Canada needs to protect at least 30% of our ocean ecosystems. I find it unacceptable that less than 1% of Canada's oceans are protected under an MPA.

We need a comprehensive plan to move forward on this important file. In fact, this weekend I attended a conference on oceans where a scientist indicated there was no reason that Canada couldn't protect 10% of our oceans under MPAs in the next two years without affecting a single fisherman or industry.

I'm specifically interested in the development of MPAs on the west coast. Currently, there are two MPAs: the Bowie Seamount MPA, and the Endeavour Hydrothermal Vents MPA. There are at least two areas of interest: Race Rocks in the Hecate Strait, and Queen Charlotte Island Sound Glass Sponge Reef. The Glass Sponge Reefs are truly amazing. They're considered one of the greatest wonders in Canada's oceans.

I have two questions. Will the $2.6 million appropriation that we saw in the supplementary estimates go towards establishing these two MPAs, and will Canada strive to meet the goal of covering at least 10% of our oceans under MPAs by 2020?

[Kevin Stringer]

We have signed up. It's a CBD, which is a convention on biological diversity. That established, internationally, objectives for all countries that signed up to try to get to 10% protection by 2020. Race Rocks, Hecate Strait are moving forward. When it comes to MPAs—small m, small p, small a—there are our formal MPAs, but also on the west coast, marine parks like Gwaii Haanas count toward that MPA list, and the work that Environment Canada is doing on Scott Islands just off Vancouver Island. There's a number of them that actually count toward MPAs.

There's been 15, I think, done federally at this point; eight of them are DFO MPAs; four of them, I think, are marine parks, and the others are established by Environment Canada's wildlife preserves. We are seeking to do more.

There are some areas where we've set aside large areas of fisheries. We've had fishery closures for 20, 30, 40 years, in some areas. We think those should effectively count toward areas we're protecting. We're seeking to do that as well.

With all of that, we're still concerned about being able to get to that 10%. It's still an aspirational objective. There is an attempt to have an overall plan.

The final thing I'd mention is that MPA networks are sort of the next big thing. Working with the Province of B.C. in particular, but also first nations and others, who are also working on protecting areas in ensuring that you have all the players at the table: DFO, Parks Canada, Environment Canada, the province, others.... We're looking at what's being protected now, what the gaps are, and who should be moving forward in the next area of protection. That's kind of the next big step, but also moving forward with Race Rocks, Hecate Strait, etc.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

In the remaining time I have, I want to ask the commissioner a quick question.

Commissioner, when you appeared before the committee two weeks ago, I believe you mistakenly characterized my comments as acknowledging that the system is working. In fact, I outlined a number of concerns I've heard that indicate there are unexpected challenges and perhaps unexpected costs in relation to the shutdown of the Kitsilano coast guard station.

I understand that the coast guard base at Sea Island responded to 225 search and rescue incidents between March 1 and October 1 of this year. According to records I previously obtained under the Access to Information Act, the four-year average of search and rescue incidents responded to by Sea Island was about 50.5, and Kitsilano responded to an average of 161.5 incidents. This is a total of 212 incidents. In six months this year, Sea Island responded to more than 225, more than the both Sea Island and Kits responded to on an annual basis, 212.

In your opinion, has this increased in terms of incidents and has this resulted in increased costs?

[Marc Grégoire]

Yes, it has increased costs for Sea Island, but as I also mentioned last time, this is part of our net savings of $700,000. We have increased the budget of Sea Island. Obviously, Sea Island, from the numbers you're listing, was underutilized, which is not surprising if you have two search and rescue stations close by.

The exact number I have here, if I amalgamate the Sea Island base and the Discovery seasonal base, is 405 search and rescue distress incidents in the greater Vancouver area from the time we close.... So from February 19 to today, we have handled 405 search and rescue incidents successfully, and within the standards agreed upon for the rest of the country and the world, for that matter. We're still satisfied that we took the proper action in closing Kitsilano.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Weston.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to comment on our report that we did on closed containment aquaculture and then move to ways in which British Columbians may see that habitat protection has actually improved under the recent changes.

This committee is quite proud that we got through a unanimous report. One of the recommendations was that there would be a closed containment salmon aquaculture centre of excellence created. The government's response reflected some of the fiscal realities, and that recommendation was acknowledged.

I'm just wondering if you have any suggestions for people who have looked at that recommendation, in the private sector or elsewhere, and who may be taking that seriously. Is there anything they should be doing?

Then I'll move on to some habitat protection questions.

[David Bevan]

On closed containment, there are pilot projects under way now, as you may be aware, on the west coast. Some first nations are working on closed containment and determining whether or not they can scale to a commercial level. That has also been looked at by other private sector companies.

At this point, they haven't determined that it can still meet the same kind of competitiveness as the net pens can, but that has not been something that's been ignored by the private sector. We're continuing to provide advice as requested.

I don't believe that we have any plans at this point to fund those kinds of studies further than what has already been done.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

But there's a continued offering of expertise—

[David Bevan]

Yes.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

—and responses to inquiries.