Fisheries Committee on Oct. 30th, 2018

[Serge Buy, Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Ferry Association]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I act as the chief executive officer of the Canadian Ferry Association. Our association represents ferry owners, operators, and suppliers to the ferry sector in Canada.

Our members run a fleet of more than 160 ferries, employ close to 10,000 people, and generate an additional 20,000 jobs. We transport 53 million people, 21 million vehicles, and billions of dollars of goods. More importantly, we enable people to go to school, hospital, and work. We are often the only link for remote communities.

Our members have operations in the areas in which southern resident killer whales, North Atlantic right whales and belugas can be found. This means that our members have for years been interacting with whales. Ferry operators have for decades and long before whales reached the national agenda implemented measures designed to protect them. Here are some examples.

Bay Ferries has, since 1998, put in place an education and monitoring program. It has worked with the company to provide training for its officers in the identification of mammal species and whale behaviours. A biologist was posted and made daily observations for many years. Data was reported and made available to the scientific community.

If an aggregation of North Atlantic right whales was observed, ferry routes would be diverted until the whales left the area. It happened once in 20 years, in the Gulf of Maine in the early 2000s. This company's voluntary program, leadership and due diligence have resulted in the avoidance of ship strikes.

The Société des traversiers du Québec is participating in a project to measure the underwater sound emissions of its vessels and new ferries, specifically for belugas.

The dredging carried out to maintain operations is limited to certain periods. This increases costs and creates some risks for the teams as a result of the difficult conditions during these periods.

Marine Atlantic has engaged marine biologists to develop a marine mammal management plan. Its vessel crews maintain an effective bridge watch for marine mammals. It has organized a whale monitoring group that monitors location of the North Atlantic right whale.

BC Ferries has invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in support of technologies to monitor underwater radiated noises. It has invested more to look at technologies to limit such noises, and in this case, the federal government can certainly play an additional role. Its crews are trained to avoid whales. BC Ferries has assumed a leadership role in efforts to save the southern resident killer whales.

Those are only some of the examples of what our members are doing. As an association, we recently signed a conservation agreement with Transport Canada respecting the southern resident killer whales. We are committed to do what we can to help the nationwide efforts to save those whales.

Mr. Chair, my wife and I have two little girls, Audrey and Cleo, and I want them to be able to know that these whales continue to exist thanks to a nationwide effort to save them. We need to save those whales and do what we can. We certainly as a ferry association and with our members are doing our part.

We support the general objective of motion M-154. This issue needs to be discussed and debated. Our operators are doing what they can, and we know that other sectors are doing the same. We welcome the involvement of the Government of Canada and think that its leadership in bringing together stakeholders is crucial.

Thank you.

[The Chair]

Thank you very much. You used less time than was allotted. That's what we like to see. We can get more questions in.

We'll go now to the Shipping Federation of Canada.

Ms. Simard, whenever you're ready, you may take seven minutes or less.

[Sonia Simard, Director, Legislative Affairs, Shipping Federation of Canada]

My name is Sonia Simard. I'm here today on behalf of the Shipping Federation of Canada, which represents owners, operators and agents of those big ships, ocean-going vessels, that are carrying Canada's international trade to and from the overseas markets.

The vessels of our members call ports in the Atlantic, the St. Lawrence, on the Great Lakes, on the west coast, and in the Arctic. As such, we have a vested interest in the safe co-existence of ships and whales. I'll take a few minutes here to outline some of the concrete actions we have undertaken so far.

On the east coast, for the North Atlantic right whale we were part of the protection efforts that took place in the Bay of Fundy and in the Roseway Basin in 2003 and 2008. Since then, these whales have moved to other parts of the Gulf of St. Lawrence, which led to a terrible situation in 2017.

The death of several of those whales in the gulf over a very few months has affected all of us. The shipping industry has been affected not only because there has been quite a challenge resulting from the very sudden imposition of a large area slowdown, but also because we have a shared concern for the survival and protection of those whales.

As such, from mid-2017 to the beginning of 2018, the shipping industry got together. We initiated discussions and worked with the North Atlantic right whale scientists whom you heard from this morning in putting together a proposal for dynamic management. The idea was to protect the North Atlantic right whales where they aggregate, which you can see in some of what we've distributed, and then allow the vessel to navigate at the normal speed in very limited shipping corridors away from the aggregation when the whales are not present.

The proposal from the industry was key, and it fed into the dynamic mitigation measures that the federal government implemented in 2018.

Looking into the St. Lawrence now, for the beluga, again the shipowners since 2013 have worked with several partners to put together mitigation measures, including a voluntary slowdown, to minimize the risk of collision with several different populations of whales that operate in the area from May to October. These measures, which have been in place since 2013, have led to a change in behaviour. They have produced a reduction in the risk of collisions.

I know that Carrie will soon be addressing the west coast, so I won't go too much into detail but will just again underline that the shipowners, the operators and the ship agents have for the second year in a row delivered voluntary measures that are delivering noise reduction in important areas used by the southern resident killer whales.

These are, just to complement some of the examples from Mr. Buy, some of the actions that the shipping industry is taking to protect endangered whales in all Canadian waters.

We know, however, that more needs to be done and we are grateful for the occasion to discuss with this committee what the next steps could be. I'll take the rest of the minutes I have to underline some of our perspectives.

First, for us regulations are not the be all and end all. We say this because we think it's important to take into consideration that in some cases, voluntary management mitigation measures implemented on an industry-wide basis are very efficient, adaptive in nature and very swift in results, if you compare them with some of the heavy regulatory processes.

Second, although there's a body of knowledge to the effect that reducing speed to 10 knots can indeed reduce the risk of ship strikes, the situation is not the same when it comes to addressing the issue of underwater noise from vessels. There is an important knowledge gap there.

To give you an example, we are still finding information about the noise that can be allocated to different categories of vessels and how the footprint of a vessel may vary because of such factors as loading conditions or even such fixed factors as the type of propellers on board vessels or the shape of those vessels.

It is then a very complex issue. Efforts are under way to gather the data we need to address some of the knowledge gap, but in our opinion, we are not there yet.

I'm saying this to underline that in some cases regulations may look good on paper but may not always produce the best solutions, because regulations tend not to allow for real-time learning experience and an adaptive approach such as is very critically needed when dealing with underwater noise.

The third point for us is that a “one size fits all” solution is not the way forward. What I mean by that is that if you take the situation of the North Atlantic right whales in 2018, we are seeing indeed that a dynamic approach to minimizing the risk of ship strikes is producing effects, and actually from our perspective it is much better than the big box with a static speed.

There is a learning curve. We are still in the learning process and we have identified elements that could be improved for the 2019 regime. I'll be happy to elaborate more in questions.

Looking at underwater noise, again, if you focus on one speed and crystalize that speed into a regulation, you run the risk that it's not going to be an efficient solution, and we have learned in the last two voluntary measures trials, in 2017 and 2018, that there are different ways of accomplishing a target noise reduction. We need to learn more from these. Again a “one size fits all” approach is not necessarily the solution. Also, if we focus all our efforts on speed reduction, we may deny efforts in ship design, and that's where the solution really needs to lie.

A fourth point that's very important and is common to the problems of ship strikes and underwater noise is the need to know where the whales are. For that we need sustained and very efficient investment in detection technologies.

I'll give you one example. This season we are urging the federal government to invest in real-time acoustic detection in the shipping corridor in time for 2019, so that we combine acoustic detection with aerial detection in order to improve dynamic management.

My very last point—I promise, 20 seconds—is something that this committee has addressed before. You've said that we need to be nimble in our actions to protect the whales. We agree, and for that reason we think that the industry must be part of all solutions. And it's not just about consultation. I'll go one step further: it's about constructive partnerships, which are essential to address and find dynamic management solutions that work and are sustainable.

Thank you for listening.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Ms. Simard.

We'll go now to Carrie Brown from the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority, for seven minutes or less, please.

[Carrie Brown, Director, Environmental Programs, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority]

Thank you for this invitation to appear before you.

My name is Carrie Brown. I'm the director of environmental programs at the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority. We are the port authority that's responsible for the stewardship of the port of Vancouver, Canada's largest port. Our mandate, as set out under the Canada Marine Act, is to facilitate Canada's trade objectives, protect the environment and consider the impact of port activity on local communities.

Since 2014, the port authority has been leading the way in engaging regional stakeholders on the topic of minimizing threats posed by shipping to at-risk whales in southern British Columbia. This includes initiating the enhancing cetacean habitat and observation, or ECHO, program. This is a regional collaborative initiative that seeks to better understand and reduce threats to at-risk whales through advancing research and voluntary threat reduction measures.

The ECHO program works collaboratively with marine transportation industries, scientists, indigenous individuals, conservation and environmental organizations, and Canadian and U.S. governments. BC Ferries and the Shipping Federation are members of our advisory working group. The program is recognized regionally, nationally and internationally as a model for effective collaboration and evidence-based decision making.

The program has focused its efforts currently on understanding underwater noise from large ocean-going vessels. As you've probably heard, what we know about the measurement and analysis of underwater noise is that it's complicated. The ways in which different levels of underwater noise affect the life functions of whale species are not entirely understood. To add to this complicated issue, each vessel has a unique sound signature. Operational or design mitigation that may reduce noise for one vessel may not be applicable to others: one size does not fit all.

However, knowing this, the ECHO program has made considerable advances in a very short period of time in understanding vessel-related threats to at-risk whales, including the southern resident killer whale, and we have engaged relevant interests to identify solutions and implement voluntary threat reduction actions. For instance, we have been working with stakeholders to formulate, trial and implement voluntary noise action measures. Such measures include both slowing down vessels and shifting vessel traffic away from key southern resident killer whale critical habitats. Vessel operator participation has been very high, on the order of more than 80%, and has demonstrated that voluntary measures can be an effective means of reducing underwater noise from vessels.

The large-scale voluntary measures implemented through the ECHO program in the last two years illustrate how much can be achieved through well-designed, adaptive and voluntary measures. The ECHO program fosters an environment for innovative thinking in which those contributing to the threats play a central role in developing solutions and taking ownership of and accountability for the implementation of threat reduction actions. We believe that the ECHO program's collaborative voluntary efforts can and will continue to yield positive results when they are implemented.

The port authority has expended and continues to expend considerable effort to better understand and mitigate the effects associated with deep sea vessels on cetaceans, particularly the southern resident killer whale, within and beyond our jurisdiction. The ECHO program is helping to address some of the key data gaps that are a focus of the amended recovery strategy for northern and southern resident killer whales; however, the most recent version of the recovery strategy acknowledges that much still remains unknown about resident killer whales and their critical habitat.

We believe that before government develops regulations around reducing underwater noise from commercial vessels through such measures as speed limits, time must be given to better understand science before imposing actions that could have unintended consequences on industry or the environment. There is a need to undertake research and consultation with subject matter experts to adequately assess both the benefits and impacts of environmental threat reduction. Any proposed regulations must be informed by a full understanding of not only the impacts on whales but the effects on navigational safety, operational feasibility, and commercial and economic growth.

We believe strongly that government should also give consideration to the potential implications of applying regulations only in Canadian waters. Whales do not recognize international boundaries.

For geographic areas located in proximity to international borders, a competitive disadvantage for Canada could be created, limiting the achievement of environmental benefits. Any measures that are implemented must have coordination from both Canadian and U.S. governments in order to ensure a greater overall protection strategy. Transboundary voluntary and adaptive efforts will likely yield much greater environmental benefits.

We would like to see government consider all vessel types in its mitigation strategy, not just commercial shipping traffic. The Salish Sea has seen and will continue to see an increase in all vessel traffic, including that of ferries and of government, recreational, whale-watching and fishing vessels. These vessels also have the potential to generate environmental impacts and should be given due consideration when addressing the cumulative environmental threat reduction.

Government should also consider both the anticipated short-term and the long-term environmental benefits and implications of regulation. Although adjustments to vessel operations on water, such as changes to routes or speeds, may in the short term reduce the effects of shipping on endangered whales, the long-term solution to vessel noise reduction lies in the design of quieter ships.

We believe that regulating short-term threat reduction solutions, such as vessel slowdowns, may consequently stifle progress and inhibit drivers for innovation and longer-term change, which could include the design of quieter vessels. The ability to create an environment in which innovation is encouraged will yield much greater conservation benefits regionally and globally in the longer term.

Alternatively, instead of regulation, we would encourage voluntary measures that provide vessel operators with choices about ways to offset their effects. For example, vessels could slow down or maintain regular speed by installing quiet technologies through critical feeding areas or could make an investment in vessel quiet design.

Last, regulation must be adaptable over time. As our knowledge of both threats and threat reduction measures evolves, there should be an ability for regulation to also evolve and adapt over time.

The Vancouver Fraser Port Authority commends the actions taken by the Government of Canada to deliver its national oceans protection plan and protect endangered species. We hope that we can continue to provide insight into collaborative and voluntary ways to reduce impacts to at-risk whales here on Canada's Pacific south coast and that these learnings can be applied across Canada and around the world.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Ms. Brown.

We'll go now to Walter Daudrich, president of Lazy Bear Expeditions.

Before you start, I understand that you have a video you were going to show, but the clerk tells me she doesn't have the equipment to show it.

[Walter Daudrich, President, Lazy Bear Expeditions]

I have it on a stick, if you have a computer.

[The Chair]

I've asked the clerk to distribute it to the members of the committee so that they can look at it themselves.

When you're ready to start, sir, you have seven minutes.

[Walter Daudrich]

I'll just take a moment to say thank you to the committee members for having me here. I appreciate it. As you can imagine, it's a long drive from northern Canada.

I'm the owner and founder of Lazy Bear Lodge Limited. Lazy Bear is based in Churchill, Manitoba, and has been in operation for over 20 years. It offers a unique lodging experience to its customers, which, along with various other activities, includes beluga whale-watching tours in the summer months. I also operate an organic farm and greenhouse on Hudson Bay.

I am also the chair of the Churchill Beluga Whale Tour Operators Association, the CBWTOA, a group of independent small businesses that operate beluga whale-watching tours in and around Churchill and adjacent areas of the western Hudson Bay coast. The tours operated by members of our association include viewing and interacting with beluga whales from the shore, aboard vessels and in small craft, including but not limited to kayaking and canoeing. I am also president of the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary for Churchill.

CBWTOA has created a series of policies and protocols that protect beluga whales and endeavour to educate, inspire and communicate the value of this unique marine mammal throughout the world. A copy of our code of conduct, which governs our whale-watching tours, can be found at CBWTOA.com. This policy was drafted in part in recognition of the marine mammal regulations issued under the Fisheries Act as they existed prior to June 2018.

The town of Churchill is in serious economic distress. Initially, the port of Churchill closed, and then, approximately one year ago, the Hudson Bay rail line washed out. That rail line was Churchill's primary transportation link to the outside world. OmniTRAX, the railway and port owner, was in a legal dispute with the federal government over responsibility for bringing the rail line back into operation.

The tourism industry is Churchill's largest employer, and that industry is keeping the local economy afloat. The members of our association employ approximately 200 persons, including many indigenous persons. The summer tourism industry in Churchill generates approximately $10 million in revenue. Even prior to the commencement of last summer's whale-watching season, our members were accepting guest reservation bookings for next year. We're hiring and training new employees and making new capital equipment purchases. The Province of Manitoba has spent millions of dollars through Travel Manitoba advertising the products provided by our members.

Regarding the beluga whale population, I want to draw to your attention some facts from a Canadian Science Advisory Secretariat study issued in October 2017 and titled “Estimated abundance of the Western Hudson Bay beluga stock from the 2015 visual and photographic aerial survey”. This study illustrates that the beluga whale population in the western Hudson Bay area is thriving. This population is currently estimated at somewhere between 50,000 and 60,000.

The study illustrates that in the western Hudson Bay area, including the Churchill River and Seal River locations, there is a high density of beluga whales, which congregate in these areas during the summer months. There's a high density of beluga whales that travel up the Churchill River right up to the Port of Churchill. It has been estimated that there can be as many as 5,000 beluga whales in the Churchill River at certain times.

I have been involved in beluga whale-watching activities in and around Churchill for roughly 37 years. I can attest that beluga whales are very intelligent, extremely curious and highly social animals. Because of the high density of beluga whales in the areas mentioned above, and because of their natural curious and social behaviour, it is virtually impossible to avoid coming into proximity with beluga whales during our tour operations. As soon as our boats leave the docks, they are approached by beluga whales, which then follow the boats to any destination they choose. Even if we attempted to sail away from the belugas, they would follow us.

In all my years of involvement with whale-watching, I have never seen any beluga whale injured by whale-watching tour operations. Even though our boats use prop guards, these are virtually unnecessary because beluga whales, in my experience, are far too intelligent and agile to be injured by boat propellers. I have never seen any beluga whale bearing scars from a propeller injury.

Further, in all my years of involvement with whale-watching, I have never seen any beluga whale appearing to be distressed by the activities of whale-watching tours. To the contrary, they exhibit playful conduct and curiosity. We do not attempt to lure beluga whales by feeding them or inducing them in any other way. Frankly, there is no need to do so. As noted, beluga whales approach our vessels the minute we leave shore.

You're no doubt aware of the regulations amending the marine mammal regulations, which were registered on June 22, 2018, and published in the Canada Gazette on July 11, 2018. Attached to the amending regulations is a regulatory impact analysis statement.

The statement identifies the matters that were considered by the government when drafting the amending regulations. For instance, the statement refers to the “risk of injury through collisions with boats or being slashed by their propellers”. It also refers to circumstances that exist in other locations, including the St. Lawrence Seaway.

None of these considerations applies to the whale-watching industry in and around Churchill. As noted, to my knowledge, no beluga whale has ever been injured or distressed because of whale-watching tour operations in this location. As further noted, the beluga whale population is thriving in western Hudson Bay. Their numbers are currently estimated at between 50,000 and 60,000. In contrast, it is my understanding that the beluga whale population in the St. Lawrence Seaway numbers approximately only 500 to 600, and there has been notorious publicity regarding the injury or death of many whales in that area because of collisions with large commercial vessels.

The statement refers to Churchill, but says very little about the circumstances that exist in the Churchill area. It states that an “estimated 366 small to medium whale watching businesses were operating in Canada” in 2015. However, it neglects to mention that there are currently only three whale-watching tour businesses with boats in the water operating outside of Churchill. It also fails to mention that the beluga whale population in western Hudson Bay is large and thriving, and that there is no evidence, scientific or otherwise, which suggests that there is any harm or risk of harm to the beluga whale population in western Hudson Bay because of whale-watching operations.

Further, it fails to note that, unlike other parts of Canada or internationally, beluga whales in western Hudson Bay, because of their dense population, natural curiosity and social behaviour, actively approach boats in the water, including whale-watching tour operation vessels. It further fails to have regard to the fact that it is literally impossible to put a boat in the water in the Churchill area without immediately being near beluga whales.

It therefore appears clear to me that by expressly including the Churchill River, Seal River and western Hudson Bay areas as areas where whale-watching tour activities are restricted without any regard to the actual circumstances that exist in these areas, the amending regulations are extraordinarily unfair, arbitrary and discriminatory with respect to the whale-watching industry in Churchill, which is so vitally important to the economy of Churchill.

The members of our association possess over 100 years of combined experience of watching and interacting with beluga whales in and about Churchill. A copy of our association's code of conduct, which I have provided to the clerk, has been drafted to incorporate rules and restrictions that ensure the welfare of beluga whales being watched. I sincerely believe that the whale-watching activities in the Churchill area are beneficial to the whales and enhance their conservation and protection.

Some—

[The Chair]

Thank you, Mr. Daudrich. We've gone almost a minute over time as it is.

[Walter Daudrich]

Thank you.

[The Chair]

Hopefully, anything else will come out in questioning. If not, a written submission will be provided to the members as well.

We'll go right into the question rounds now with Mr. Fraser for the government side.

Mr. Fraser, you have seven minutes or less. I will be very strict on the time because I want to make sure that we get a complete round in.

[Colin Fraser]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll give my time to Ms. Ludwig.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

Thanks to all of you for being here today. When I put forward this motion, I thought it was important not only in my particular area of the country in Atlantic Canada, but certainly nationally when we look at the risk that we're all facing. It's about maximum protection and minimal disruption for industry, and I thank all of you as industry participants and partners in all of this, because we can't do this without you. I'll jump into my line of questioning regarding shipping.

Serge and Ms. Simard, thank you for our initial consultations and for supporting the motion. I look forward to seeing you in Beaver Harbour in the summer with your daughters.

I have a couple of questions. These are some of the questions that I hear from industry, from fishermen. They're specific to shipping.

For whales, do you know if the initial cause of death is actually ship strikes or is it potentially that they were already entangled or weakened because they could not find the prey to feed upon and that put them in harm's way when coming across a boat? That's the first one.

The second one, if I could ask you to speak to this as well, is on the research and development side. I know from the consultations I had with the shipping sector that in some areas, particularly with the southern resident killer whale, slowing down the speed of a boat in some respects can actually be detrimental, because at slower speeds there is a tipping point where it actually makes the boat louder.

Last, I'd like to hear your comments on how one size does not fit all. That is an entirely consistent message that I've heard from the beginning of the motion to now at committee.

I'm going to start with Serge.

[Serge Buy]

About a year and a half ago, or a year and a bit, I met with Transport Canada officials. Their statement to me was that we have to reduce the speed of ferries to protect the southern resident killer whales. My reply was, “Do you understand that if we do reduce the speed of ferries, it will increase the noise?” There was dead silence. They asked us to prove it to them, so we had to prove it to them using their own data and other data that we had.

I think we talked about unintended consequences and we talked about regulations that may not fit every part of this sector. I think there needs to be ample consultation before those regulations are put forward. There needs to be a little bit more discussion with industry on that. I see a change within TC and Fisheries and Oceans. I definitely think they heard the message that industry was concerned. To be frank, I've seen them very receptive to comments. I'm quite happy to see that.

In terms of whales, I've talked to the same fishermen you've talked to in the same part of the world. I was on a lobster fishing boat between midnight and noon earlier this summer, and I heard an earful on the regulations. I do think we need to be very careful on how we implement regulations. In the Bay of Fundy, Whitetail Fisheries—I was on their boat—expressed concerns about the way the regulations would be implemented and the stop to fishing that was put in by Fisheries and Oceans.

I do think we need to have a little bit more consultation and debate.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

Ms. Simard.

[Sonia Simard]

Not to repeat anything on that issue, I would add that we had necropsies last year. We had seven necropsies. They highlighted some of the conclusions. It is not an exact science. I think the important thing is not about what happened first, because indeed, those are both threats. From an industry point of view, the shipping industry recognizes that we need to act, so we're taking action.

We also think that all threats need to be addressed. You just had a very interesting panel on prey availability. We need to address that. In the same way, entanglement is part of the threat, and so are ship strikes. For us, it's not about what happened first but about making sure it doesn't happen.

The second thing I would quickly like to add is that one solution does not fit all. It's not only about the speed, which is a definite issue in terms of underwater noise; it's also a lot about learning from dynamic management. We just heard the fishermen tell us how turning it on and off is not a long-term solution. We believe there's a lot to be learned from dynamic management in the shipping sector as well.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

Carrie.

[Carrie Brown]

With respect to slowing vessels down, as you stated, there's no one size that fits all. Vessels can in fact become louder if they are slowed down, depending on the type of vessel. I know that BC Ferries and other shipping lines have done a lot of research around better understanding what their fleets are and having a fleet perspective.

Through the ECHO program we've learned about a performance objective. If we understand the overall desired level of underwater noise that we're trying to achieve, then different vessels can approach it with different speeds, depending on what works best for that vessel type. Through the Haro Strait slowdown this summer, we asked container vessels to slow down to 14 knots and we asked bulk carriers and others to slow down to 12.5 knots. By doing this differential speed, when the whales were present, vessels were able to participate when and if it was feasible for them and it was easier for them to achieve those speeds.

We are undertaking to have results, and we'll be analyzing the data. We'll have a report toward Q1 2019, but our objective all along has been to take the same speed reductions we had during the trial in 2017.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I have one last quick question, and it's a really important one.

[The Chair]

Time.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Where is the data being shared?

[The Chair]

Sorry. The time is up.

Now we go to the Conservative side.

Mr. Doherty.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I'm going to be really quick because I'm going to share my time with Mr. Sopuck.

In a previous study, I believe it was the Shipping Federation of Canada as well as the port authority who said that industry is doing a considerable amount of research but that it was falling on deaf ears with the government.

Has that changed in the last six or seven months? Our recommendation to the officials was that they were petitioning and working with industry on that.

[Sonia Simard]

Indeed. If I may, I would say that certainly with both the North Atlantic and the southern resident killer whales, there is much dialogue.