Fisheries Committee on Nov. 29th, 2018

[The Chair]

Thank you.

[Blaine Calkins]

To the officials, I really do appreciate what you've had to say. Could let the committee know, quickly if you can, when it comes to gaps in the science that you feel you might have, what those gaps might actually be when it comes to aquaculture? Could you identify those in 45 seconds or less?

[Wayne Moore]

Scientists don't do much in 45 seconds or less—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Wayne Moore]

—but I will suggest that two important areas have been identified during the course of our work over a number of years: interactions with the environment, as well as disease issues. Those are all interactions between wild fish and aquaculture. We've invested a lot of new money, time and energy in that, including the risk assessments that we just spoke about.

Another area is genetic interactions. We've invested a significant number of resources there as well.

An area that continues to raise questions, and which we're working to fit in, is that of climate change and how that's changing our understanding of relationships with regard to aquaculture and and with regard to wild shellfish, as well as the interactions between the two. I'd leave it at that.

[Blaine Calkins]

That's fine.

Could you update this committee? My understanding is that the net-pen locations, particularly on the west coast, have a lease or an agreement to stay in a certain spot for a certain period of time. When do those agreements come up for renewal, expiry or discussion?

[Andrew Thomson]

I'll answer that question.

Under the provincial legislation, they have a lease for the seabed that they're anchored to. Each of those leases is variable in length of time and expiration date based on when they were applied for and how long they were granted for. A number of the sites in the Broughton Archipelago have lease expiration dates in the next year or have already expired and are into a month-to-month renewal of the lease. Again, this is provincial legislation about the land lease of the seabed.

[Blaine Calkins]

Thank you very much.

Can you confirm how much, if any, acoustic telemetry the department uses in its scientific monitoring of the wild stocks' movements in and around the net pens?

[Wayne Moore]

I don't know, Andy, if you want to add something to your....

[Andrew Thomson]

I'll just pass on knowledge that there have been a series of experiments conducted, in which acoustic tags were used to track salmon as they swam near net pens, or through areas of the B.C. coast. They were conducted through a series of research programs, both by departmental officials and by external scientists.

[Blaine Calkins]

The current biomass of farm-raised salmon in the net-pen configurations on the Pacific coast.... If they were to be replaced with biomass from the wild stocks, what would that look like from a fisheries management perspective?

[Andrew Thomson]

That's a good question.

There are about 90,000 tonnes of salmon produced annually in British Columbia, or approximately that. I'd have to do the math to convert it, but I can give you an example from the real world that I use. There's one processing plant in Port Hardy that processes over a million pounds of Atlantic salmon a week. That would certainly be far more than the current Pacific fisheries can manage on a year-round basis.

[Blaine Calkins]

Thank you very much.

If I have any time left, Mr. Arnold can have it.

[The Chair]

You have one minute.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Dr. Greenwood, you started to explain that there is a decision-making process for which diseases will be addressed. Can you explain how that works, or has that been sorted out between the two departments? How do you decide which is a disease you want to pursue or investigate and which isn't?

[Dr. Penny Greenwood]

I would like to clarify that before, I was talking about the policy for emerging diseases. In the scientific world, “emerging disease” means something extremely specific. It means a disease that is new to the scientific community or to the world at large, or a disease that has been known before but has changed radically in its characteristics or behaviour. We were only talking about emerging diseases as far as this policy goes, and that came forward from the recommendation of the audit.

With regard to the other diseases, one of our primary sources, or things we look at to decide about importance, is the World Organisation for Animal Health's list of diseases. That organization looks at all diseases, terrestrial and aquatic, that pose a threat to international trade. They are suggesting, as a world scientific body, that if you introduce them into your country, you will have a difficulty in controlling or eradicating them in the future. CFIA looks at the OIE lists very carefully.

We also weigh consultation with the industry, the provinces and indigenous peoples, and we undertook that to a great extent during the development of the NAAHP. We did extensive consultations on a full list of diseases, and asked, “Which would you like to see the federal government control, because you think that they're significant to the industry or to the country, and that they can be controlled in a manner that would be effective?”

Those are the two major parameters that we use.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

We'll go back to the government side now, and Mr. Fraser, for five minutes or less, please.

[Colin Fraser]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll share a bit of my time at the beginning with Mr. Casey.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

I have two questions, and the first is for you, Mr. Thomson.

When Mr. Donnelly was asking about the importation of diseased eggs, it seemed you were trying to get his attention to supplement your answer and you didn't, so this is your chance. Do you have anything else you want to add on that?

[Andrew Thomson]

Yes, thank you very much, sir.

Now I have a better understanding of the question Mr. Donnelly was asking. There has been in place for a long period of time controls over the importation of eggs. Prior to the amendment of the Health of Animals Act to include aquatic animals, there was previously the fish health protection regulations administered by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. Under those previous regulations, there were also requirements to ensure that eggs imported into British Columbia, and into Canada at that point, came from a quarantine facility, were surface disinfected en route and then went into another quarantine facility. There have been in place for a long period of time fairly significant controls on the importation of any salmon eggs or other eggs into British Columbia.

As for how many particular importations have taken place in the last few years, I don't have that data in front of me, but I know it's a very small number, if not zero. I'm happy to provide that data as soon as possible to the committee.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you.

My next question arises out of Mr. Hardie's line of questioning with respect to the Broughton Archipelago. I know that the minister recently made an announcement with respect to the adoption of area-based management plans. Could someone explain what they are and how they fit into the question that Mr. Hardie raised?

[Andrew Thomson]

Minister Wilkinson recently announced the adoption of an area-based management approach for aquaculture. That would include development of a greater understanding of the concerns of the local indigenous groups in the particular area: Are there factors in a particular area where aquaculture operates, in a fairly large geographic zone of British Columbia? We haven't determined the exact zonation of it. Are there factors in that particular zone that require greater monitoring of changes in the way the operations are licensed and controlled, changes in the way the importation of fish into those sites takes place or changes in the way the harvest takes place? What activities of the particular sites of that area that should be modified from an overall regional perspective into a more specific area-based perspective based on the biophysical factors in that particular area and based on the inputs or engagement with the indigenous groups of that area?

[Colin Fraser]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to ask DFO a question on enforcement. I understand that when the aquaculture regulations came out in 2015, no additional enforcement officers were hired to deal with that. I'd imagine that it has taken some work for them to figure out how to best handle enforcement issues dealing with aquaculture, with all the other things they've been dealing with on the ground.

Can you explain the rationale for not needing more enforcement? Do you think it's working well with bringing those regulations into force and not hiring more enforcement officers?

[John Campbell]

At the time the AAR, aquaculture activity regulations, were introduced in 2015, we had been working for a number of years with Environment Canada and looking at their numbers on how they were doing their enforcement techniques, along with inspections and audits. We determined at the time, with the help of Environment Canada, that there was actually a low number of enforcement violations. In working with our conservation and protection team, we came to the conclusion that internally we could manage in the first year and then come back in the next year or two and do a review and see where we could get to.

Conservation and protection has done that review, and now we're internally discussing how we can manage that and what else would be required as this goes forward.

The aquaculture activity regulations were the first regulations in Canada that were national in approach. Obviously, some learning comes along with new national regulations. The department certainly welcomed bringing them on, and we'll welcome changes as we move forward.

[Colin Fraser]

Thank you.