Evidence of meeting #15 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was river.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Hello, everybody. Welcome. This is the 15th meeting of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), this is part of our study on the wild Atlantic salmon in eastern Canada.
Our witnesses today are Dr. Rick Cunjak, professor, department of Biology, University of New Brunswick. Next we have Mr. Morris Green, author and historian.
I understand you're the former Minister of Natural Resources in New Brunswick. Is that correct, Mr. Morris?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
We have Dr. Robert Devlin, engineering research scientist at the deputy minister's office of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. Finally, we have Mr. François Caron, biologist, ministerial advisory committee on Atlantic salmon.
Gentlemen, thank you for joining us. We allow 10 minutes each. If you come in under 10 minutes, it certainly would be appreciated, as we do have a long session of questions and answers.
We're going to start with Dr. Cunjak.
We'll start with you, sir, for up to 10 minutes.
Rick Cunjak Professor, Department of Biology, University of New Brunswick, As an Individual
Thank you. I'd like to thank the committee for the invitation to appear here today.
If the committee would indulge me, I would first like to summarize my background as it relates to my expertise working with wild salmonids and Atlantic salmon in particular.
I first started working with wild Atlantic salmon in eastern Newfoundland rivers in 1979 with the recently deceased Dr. John Gibson, a great salmon biologist and a wonderful mentor. That set the stage for my career-long interest in studying the ecology of salmonid fishes in rivers. I received my M.Sc. in biology in 1982 from Memorial University of Newfoundland and my Ph.D. in 1986 from University of Waterloo, having studied the ecology of wild stream salmonids.
My post-doctoral research with DFO brought me back to eastern Canada to study how wild juvenile salmon use river and estuarine habitats on the northern peninsula of Newfoundland. In 1988, I was hired as a research scientist with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans in the gulf region to study the habitat use and ecology of juvenile Atlantic salmon. My work focused on rivers in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island, but mostly on the Miramichi river system. I studied forestry impacts, winter biology, survival, and movement behaviour. In 1997, I moved to UNB in Fredericton as the Meighen-Molson research chair to initiate a research program centred on wild Atlantic salmon. I have maintained that research focus to this day as a Canada research chair and professor cross-appointed in the department of Biology and the faculty of Forestry and Environmental Management.
My current research involves salmon stock recruitment dynamics, winter egg survival, the response of wild salmon to the warming of rivers from climate change, and the impacts of flow regulation. I serve as a scientific adviser for various committees and organizations including COSEWIC, Miramichi Salmon Association, the Atlantic Salmon Conservation Foundation, and CAST, the Collaboration for Atlantic Salmon Tomorrow.
Over the past 30 plus years, there has been a disturbing trend of declining numbers of adult salmon returning to many Atlantic rivers, especially those in the southern portion of the salmon's distribution. In the Miramichi river system of New Brunswick where I conduct most of my research, 2014 saw the lowest ever estimated return of adult salmon. Many factors are contributing and have likely contributed to the decline. Most scientists favour the theory that atypically high marine mortality is the main problem, but the principal cause or causes are open to speculation.
Remember that the problem of so-called marine mortality includes losses that might be attributable to the smolts as they enter tidal waters in the spring, through the post-smolt coastal movements in summer, and adult migrations at sea, and the return to spawning rivers, in an area covering tens of thousands of square kilometres in a period of anywhere from 14 to 24 months. Compared with the freshwater environment, the sea is the environment about which we know the least. It truly is the black box.
It's certainly a complex problem. Marine issues often identified include predation, for instance from striped bass or seals; overfishing; especially high seas; changing oceanographic conditions largely related to climate change; and even shifting forage or food or bases; and the quality of available prey species.
It's worth noting that there are still issues of concern in fresh water, especially, for instance, the warming of our rivers in the southern range of Atlantic salmon such as in the Maritimes and in the state of Maine. There is also habitat fragmentation and the impact of non-native competitors.
Another issue worth noting is the relative lack of government research and monitoring, and not just for salmon. Salmon are part of a complex ecosystem. Focusing solely on their dynamics without accounting for the changes in their food web and environment is naive at best and misleading at worst.
In the past, DFO science was taking the lead in addressing important scientific and management problems. DFO used to be the premier fisheries research group in the world. Indeed, as a young Ph.D. graduate, I viewed the federal government and academia as equally rewarding for conducting exciting applied scientific research. This has not been the case for the past two decades, at least with respect to salmon research in eastern Canada.
The few biologists and scientists working with DFO in the Atlantic region—and they are very hard-working people—are able to do little more than monitor stock status as part of annual assessments. There is little opportunity or encouragement to conduct truly independent or collaborative research on topical issues, for instance, aquaculture impacts or predator impacts. I was very pleased, therefore, by the recent announcement of a significant investment in increasing the numbers of federal scientists and biologists, some of whom will hopefully be working to improve our understanding of the salmon decline so that we can take appropriate management decisions.
If I may, I would like to suggest some recommendations for how DFO and other interested parties concerned about the future of wild Atlantic salmon might approach the issue of declining population numbers and species management and conservation.
First, I would encourage DFO scientists and biologists to initiate new research projects and experiments, for example on smolt predation, and truly collaborate with non-DFO partners, such as CAST, to address important management needs. These are questions such as how effective is catch-and-release is for improving salmon populations in specific rivers? Could it be practised in an entire river catchment? Would it realize improved adult survival and returns? Might even closures to any form of exploitation, whether commercial, recreational, or subsistence, for two to three generational cycles be effective?
Second, we should prioritize salmon management in rivers with a realistic view to what is likely to occur within 10 to 25 years, including more emphasis on northern rivers where stocks are stable or increasing but poorly monitored.
With that I would like to conclude, and I'm happy to answer any questions from the committee.
Liberal
Author, Historian, As an Individual
Mr. Chairman, committee members, support staff, and fellow presenters, it's an honour to appear before this important resource committee to discuss the issue of wild Atlantic salmon. This committee may, through its report, do much to help restore this vital species.
By way of background, I live on the main Southwest Miramichi River, as did my ancestors for the past 200 years. Since our arrival, like our neighbours, we have always in one way or another been dependent on Atlantic salmon for food, employment, or recreation. This species is, and has been, as much a part of our lives as the forests that surround the river valley, the river, and the air.
Like others, I have angled for salmon, guided sports fishermen and women, and worked in various capacities to help conserve and enhance this signal species. Being minister of natural resources from 1987 to 1991 afforded me the opportunity to make some progress for the salmon by instituting province-wide fish habitat enhancement programs, working with dedicated volunteers in initiating river cleanups, maintaining existing salmon barriers, establishing two new salmon barriers, and working co-operatively with the federal government to facilitate one first nation's entry into angling outfitting rather than net-based salmon harvest. Discussions were under way with several others when I retired from politics. An offshoot of those discussions was the establishment of an aboriginal enforcement arm regulating local fisheries on their waters.
During my political life, and later as a writer and researcher, I've spoken to the salmon elders, some of whom had been involved in the river fishery for more than 70 years. From this, I determined that not all knowledge is learned in the classroom. We have much to learn from their wisdom and knowledge.
All of these various experiences have led me to the following conclusions. The sophisticated Atlantic salmon, which exhibits remarkable survival skills and adaptability, faces a deteriorating environment and increased threats in its spawning rivers, migratory routes, and ocean feeding zones. Much of the distressed environment is the fault of human activity, while some of it can be attributed to natural, earth-generated changes. All we can do is address those things we can change, and begin now to assure the best results.
Some of the problems at home begin with the spawning streams themselves. Two of the greatest threats are habitat destruction by intrusive industrial forestry practices resulting in warming of river water and subsequent siltation of gravel spawning beds, and improper road construction with similar consequences. I want to point out that this isn't necessarily something that only large companies do. It's done on private woodlots, as well.
River warming results when there's destruction of cold-water springs that feed into small streams that eventually end up in main rivers. Reduction of protective shading setback barriers are another part of the problem. Salmon are a cold-water species that die when river temperatures rise into the eighties. Keeping the rivers cold is equivalent to closing the fridge and freezer doors at home. We've been leaving our river door open.
Another problem is the virtual elimination of federal and provincial fisheries officers present along salmon rivers, which allows poachers freedom to illegally harvest large numbers of salmon from remaining cold-water pools, reducing substantially the number of large multi-winter spawners that lay their eggs to begin another life cycle. I can remember when there would be two wardens watching three salmon pools that were put together. Now there are none.
Other threats to salmon are rapid population increases of salmon-predator species, like striped bass, merganser ducks, cormorants, and seals. Current management practices have allowed an imbalance in these species' numbers, which threatens the salmon's existence. Of course, it is well established that international overfishing of salmon on its feeding grounds reduces their numbers as well.
The first step in the restoration project for this federal government is to become involved in a number of ways to fulfill its leadership role in fish management. The first part begins at home.
I have a suggestion to make, and I'm going to sort of cut to the chase on this. If the Department of Fisheries and Oceans really wants to address the wild Atlantic salmon issue, it should do the following. Set up a proactive task force within the department dedicated to that end, one equipped with the finances and selected people to achieve success. Have it begin by tweaking existing management policies by addressing the immediate concerns, such as salmon predator imbalance, enforcement protection, and habitat protection. Broaden the existing management plans by including all salmon habitats, from the spawning rivers to their feeding grounds and back. Go to work on such items as data-gathering, gathering existing or generating new scientific studies of particular problems unique to particular estuaries and rivers. Recognize that any management plan is organic and must change as new information becomes available. Have them dust off the shelved 2,300 scientific studies to find relevant wisdom for current application. Recognize that an important part of this work is to diplomatically work with, rather than at, various partners. In that vein, co-operate and coordinate with the provinces, first nations, NGOs, river management groups, and individual citizens on specific parts of this overall plan.
By utilizing all the resources at hand, develop short-, medium-, and long-term plans within the overall management plan. Encourage other salmon-producing nations to do the same, while working with them to get this problem solved. Inaction is fatal. Focused, determined action with all partners will bring success in salmon restoration.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, Mr. Green. We really appreciate that.
We'll move on to Dr. Devlin, please, for up to 10 minutes.
Dr. Robert Devlin Engineering Research Scientist, Deputy Minister's Office, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Thank you very much. I very much appreciate the opportunity to appear before you. I don't have a formal presentation, but I'm here to answer any questions you may have.
I work for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans as a research scientist in West Vancouver. We have an aquatic and molecular biology laboratory there, where we study genetics, physiology, and ecology of a variety of different fish species and strains.
Our main focus has been on the analysis of what we call novel organisms. These are defined under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act as “products of biotechnology”. The main effort in this area has been to be involved in the environmental risk assessment of genetically engineered growth-enhanced Atlantic salmon. This has been a long process for which we have generated similar kinds of strains, using Pacific salmon, to generate scientific data that can be used to support the risk assessment process.
I should say that in 2013 there was a very formal risk assessment conducted on the AquaBounty AquAdvantage Atlantic salmon. The determination under that, which was released by Environment Canada under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act legislation, was that there was a very low risk, with reasonable certainty, of environmental damage and indirect human health issues.
That allowed the proponents to consider growing their Atlantic salmon under the scenario they proposed, which was to grow eggs in the Atlantic region in Souris, P.E.I., and to ship those eggs to Panama, where they would be grown out and then returned to North America for sale.
That initial process in 2013 did not undertake a food safety evaluation, but just less than one hour ago, Health Canada released an announcement that the company is approved to sell transgenic fish in Canada. We are the first country globally to authorize the growth and sale for human consumption of a genetically engineered animal. I have very much been involved in that risk assessment process, and I'm happy to answer any questions on the details of that, if that's of interest.
The other project I've been involved in with regard to Atlantic salmon involved looking at whether there was a hybridization capability between Atlantic salmon grown in aquaculture facilities in British Columbia to breed with our local Pacific salmon. A basic conclusion from this is that there is very low risk of that.
I'll leave it there. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have on those topics or any others.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you for that, Dr. Devlin.
We will now hear from our next witness, Mr. François Caron, who is taking part in our meeting from Quebec city.
Mr. Caron, you have the floor for 10 minutes.
François Caron Biologist, Ministerial Advisory Committee on Atlantic Salmon, As an Individual
Good afternoon, everyone.
Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear here today.
Let me introduce myself briefly. My name is François Caron and I am a biologist. In 1980, I began working for the Ministry of Forests, Wildlife and Parks of Quebec, and my work was on salmon.
As you probably know, for a long time, that is to say since 1922, salmon management and research in Quebec has been a matter of provincial jurisdiction, but there is also the Fisheries Act, a federal law, which contains a chapter that deals particularly with Quebec.
I began my career as a salmon researcher by choosing control rivers where we calculated, yearly, how many young salmon, smolts, went out to sea, and how many returned in subsequent years, that is to say after a year or two, and sometimes three, of being at sea.
As Mr. Gérald Chaput explained, salmon stocks are different according to regions. Quebec's salmon have a particular characteristic. With the exception of salmon populations that are close to Labrador and resemble the populations in that region, in the rest of Quebec, approximately 25% of the salmon are grilse, i.e. salmon that returns after only one year at sea. These are for the majority male, whereas the females spend two or three years at sea before they come back to reproduce for the first time.
These characteristics have greatly affected salmon management in Quebec. For quite a while now, we have taken additional measures to protect the females especially, which are the big salmon, by establishing the conservation limits we want to see observed in the rivers. Through my research and the work others have done previously, we also know that a river can receive a limited number of salmon, since the young ones have to be able to feed themselves during three, four and sometimes even five years in the river before they leave it.
I often compare a river to an agricultural field that can feed a given number of sheep or cows. A river also has a limited capacity to feed young salmon during the years they must stay there before they leave for the sea. That is a characteristic that is very different from most of the other salmon populations. For instance, in the case of Pacific salmon, certain populations leave the river only a few days after the eggs hatch.
My work has shown that there was a very important change in the survival of salmon at sea as of the beginning of the 1990s. Rivers continued to produce a relatively constant number of smolts, but the number of salmon that returned declined significantly. If we take a broader view of this, this phenomenon is not unique to Quebec, nor to North America. It has been observed in all of the salmon populations throughout the world. Other species such as cod also saw considerable declines in the beginning of the 1990s.
I am ready to answer your questions, but first I would like to point out some of the features of the Quebec salmon management system. In most of the large rivers, salmon is managed through what we call controlled harvesting zones. That is quite unique in Quebec. Local organizations collect a daily fee from the people who come to fish in a river.
With this money, they hire conservation officers to ensure the salmon are protected during fishing season. This way of doing things seems very much appreciated and very effective. Conservation is ensured by these officers whose salaries are paid for by the fishers who come and fish in the rivers.
There are many economic spinoffs for the regions where salmon is fished. It is luxury fishing that is expensive, but it still interests people a great deal. There will always be appropriate management to first of all ensure stock conservation before allowing harvesting.
Those are my preliminary remarks. I will be happy to answer your questions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, Mr. Caron.
Now we're going to start with our questions. This is the first round of questions—four of them at seven minutes each. We're going to start with the government side.
Mr. Finnigan, you have the floor.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for appearing. We're really happy to have you here today with all of your knowledge. My first question will be to Morris Green.
Morris, I know you and we've had many conversations about the salmon. You know about the salmon on the Miramichi, its history, and the way it functions. Of course, you've written two beautiful books on that, so I'm really happy to have you here today.
We have very limited time, so I'm going to try to get a couple of questions in for different witnesses. To start off, Mr. Green, you know all the interventions we've done over the years, especially on the river itself. Is there anything we're still missing the mark on? Is there anything we really haven't dealt with, or something that, in your view, would really help to conserve and enhance the salmon population on the Miramichi?
Author, Historian, As an Individual
Mr. Finnigan, thank you very much. The problem is that the salmon is a very complex fish, and its ecosystem is very complex as well. Many changes have taken place on the river over the past 30 or 40 years. The disappearance of green eels, for example, is a very significant absence on the river. There are other species that have slowly disappeared, too, but because they're not of any particular interest to anybody, nobody's paid much attention to them. That's why I'm suggesting a federal task force within DFO to tackle this whole problem, so that they can look at not only the overarching salmon management but all of the other parts that are networked to it in order to assure a healthy river system.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Thank you, Mr. Green.
On that, I'll move to Mr. Cunjak, whom I've also had the pleasure of listening to on the Miramichi last summer.
You've admitted yourself that there's no exact science. We still need a lot of data. Especially, we've lost a lot of scientists, a lot of resources in research. Things like CAST, for instance, are tools we've been able to use. We have all kinds of private partners who are helping us, as well as a lot of donations and resources, but it seems that we're missing that partnership with DFO. Hopefully, we can use those new investments to good ends. In the case of CAST, for instance, we've had very big problems in getting that under way. We've had some reluctance from DFO to get that done.
How would you characterize the relationship with DFO? How can they do better?
Professor, Department of Biology, University of New Brunswick, As an Individual
Well, I think we are improving. I'm optimistic that it will get better. That's because there's a common need or understanding that it's almost impossible to address this issue single-handedly by any organization or by any group. There's valuable expertise among so many different people within the public, within industry, within NGOs, within government, and within universities, that by drawing upon that, especially where there's a common interest such as conservation of Atlantic salmon, I think we'll achieve that goal.
I think DFO is actually starting to come around. I don't think there was ever a reluctance so much as they were not able to effectively do some of this because of the lack of resources. They were already too busy with so many things, whereas historically, there were more people around. I think it is going to be improving. I'm hoping that some of these new positions will help in that regard, so long as there's a welcoming spirit to collectively look at everyone as an equal partner rather than having someone dictating the rules.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Thank you, Professor Cunjak.
I have another question.
Mr. Caron, people say that Quebec has been successful in its salmon management. Can you tell us what it is doing differently from the Atlantic provinces? Why does Quebec have better results in salmon conservation?
Biologist, Ministerial Advisory Committee on Atlantic Salmon, As an Individual
I did not want to imply that Quebec has not suffered from the decline in salmon. It was also affected by it.
Generally speaking, in the North Atlantic region, both on the European and the Canadian side, the salmon populations that suffered the most were the ones located in the southern part of the habitat.
In the past, there were salmon populations in the United States. In the beginnings of the colony, there was salmon as far away as New York. But now, the populations have disappeared in the south and they are in difficulty in the United States and in the Bay of Fundy. The southern populations are the ones that have been the most affected.
In Canada, in Quebec as well as Newfoundland and Labrador, things are all right. I would not want to attribute that strictly to the management of the species. However, as I said in my presentation, I think that Quebec does a good job of protecting salmon rivers. I think it is a combination of these factors which means that the situation is good.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Mr. Devlin, we've been hearing from DFO that something is happening out there in the ocean. We don't know what it is. They don't know what happens from the time the salmon leaves the river to the time it goes to the feeding ground.
When are we going to invest the resources in partnership with private financiers to get those answers once and for all? It seems that's where the bulk of the disappearance of salmon is happening.
Engineering Research Scientist, Deputy Minister's Office, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'm not in that area. I'm a geneticist. I hear that the department on the west coast is trying to integrate many studies on ecosystem parameters at the same time. Many studies are done on an ad hoc basis, with small studies here or there, and they don't end up being integrated to show functional reasons as to why one prey source might be limiting in one condition versus another. I know at least that there are ecosystem research initiatives on the west coast to try to understand those complex trophic interactions among species. My understanding is there aren't enough resources to do it on a very large scale.
Liberal
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you.
Mr. Green, I fished with Vince Swazey on the Miramichi a couple of years ago. I talked to Mr. Doak last week and, again, I can see the passion that all you folks have for that particular, beautiful waterway.
I very much appreciated your comments, Mr. Green, when you said, do what we can do. Often we hear from the scientific community that it's about more study. It almost paralysis by analysis. Without a doubt, we don't know everything.
What can we do in the very short term in active management practices to deal with the decline of the Miramichi Atlantic salmon?
Author, Historian, As an Individual
The first thing I'd do is set up that task force I talked about, because I think that's something we can do immediately, and I think it's something we should do immediately.
That task force then could tackle those things that are most easily solved right away, one of them being protection of the salmon pools. For example, with the decline in the number of DFO scientists came the decline in fisheries officers too. Nobody was immune from those particular cutbacks.
As I said, I can remember when I first started angling on the river, there were three salmon pools within sight of one another in Nelson Hollow and there were two guys there who were wardens. You never knew where they were going to be, but they were always watching those three pools. In one of the pools you might find as many as 5,000 salmon in hot water in the summer. Big Hole Brook was the name of the pool. Now there are no wardens. The wardens drive up and down the roads past the rivers.
Salmon protection would be one thing. There are other things we can be doing too. We can be doing some more research immediately on ways to keep the rivers cold. MSA has started some programs to that end. They're doing some thermal imaging up and down the river.
The other thing they have to remember is that the river grows from the feeder springs along the way. There's one spring in the upper Miramichi River near McKeel Lake that is so cold that it will freeze butter. That stream, that spring water, is flowing into the Miramichi River. That spring should be maintained. There shouldn't be any cutting around that stream, nor along the barrier strip that takes up water to the river. That's another immediate thing that could be done.
I'd say those are a couple of things. There are others as well, but those would be two of the first things I would do.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
In your comments, you also talked about a predator-prey imbalance. Should there be more emphasis on reducing some of the predator species to allow better smolt escapement?
Author, Historian, As an Individual
There's no question about it. Our river actually produces quite a good number of smolts, but a good percentage of them disappear on their way out. We have a voracious striped bass population that is breeding at the mouth of the Northwest Miramichi River, the junction of the Southwest and Northwest Miramichi rivers, and they're chewing up a lot of smolts. Something has to be done about that.
We have interests within DFO who are protecting the striped bass. They don't think there are enough of them. Well, the fact is—
Conservative