Evidence of meeting #62 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was interests.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
Executive Director, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
It may not be insurmountable, but it has to be considered.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Would we be better with overall management and regulation of the entire area, rather than a focus on small protected areas?
9:45 a.m.
Executive Director, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
It's tempting to consider the RCAs as the small areas and then think what happens around those areas, but if you think about another species or another model of access, then a larger area might be the way to go. Otherwise, you end up having a refuge and you potentially impact the productivity of the general area in ways that will be very difficult to understand, I think.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Would the MPAs or the regulations around them on use and harvest and so on possibly restrict the management of other species? I'm talking about predator-prey relationships and so on. Do those become complicated within MPAs?
9:50 a.m.
Chair, Sport Fishing Advisory Board, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
I think in general terms the answer is yes. This raised a whole other set of questions that came earlier, about estuaries and whatnot—the fact that log booms and estuaries provide a place for seals and sea lions to haul out so that they're not susceptible to their predator-prey relationship from killer whales. It's one of those circular ecological problems that....
The problem is, none of this is simple. If it were, we probably would have done it a long time ago.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
May 16th, 2017 / 9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to begin by complimenting both witnesses for your thoughtful presentations today. You gave them in a very thoughtful manner—the sky is not falling in. There are challenges out there, and there are issues, but I was very impressed with the depth of knowledge you have on the issues.
I have a question. Do you see a contradiction between the term “sustainably managed and protected area” and MPA?
9:50 a.m.
Chair, Sport Fishing Advisory Board, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
Yes, I think those refer to two different things. The marine protected area definition doesn't say that nothing happens there, but by and large it has been used as a way of preventing activities that were contradictory to the overall ecological status of that area.
The tricky part for our fishery is this. The Race Rocks Marine Protected Area off Victoria, which is still waiting to be established, is a good example. You try to protect items on that structure, but if you make the boundary around Race Rocks slightly bigger, then no one can go salmon fishing there, while salmon fishing is not what you're trying to protect with the Race Rocks Marine Protected Area.
It's working out, though. We thought we had that one solved, frankly, and we agreed on it.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Is the term, then, interchangeable? Can they both define the same objective?
9:50 a.m.
Chair, Sport Fishing Advisory Board, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
I don't think they're interchangeable. I think that sustainable management refers to a number of different things. It is different from the decision to protect areas over the long run because you want to ensure.... You're protecting a whole variety of different things, whereas sustainable management in fisheries generally refers to the sustainable ability to continue to harvest over a longer period of time without doing damage to the underlying stock.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I want to back to my colleague Mr. Arnold's question because it's an intriguing point that he raised, as well as a valid one. Canada is a unique environment. Should we be looking at refining the definition of how we apply MPAs here as it relates to.... In some areas, we do have commercial fishing activity going on within MPAs. To the purist, that area then is not truly an MPA. Therefore, we don't get our numbers that we should be looking at. Should we, from your extensive personal involvement in the past, from your groups, be looking at our definition of what an MPA should be?
9:50 a.m.
Chair, Sport Fishing Advisory Board, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
I never give short answers, but my short answer is yes. As someone who has participated in a series of international negotiations—I'm a former foreign service officer—I will tell you that Canada protects its interests by ensuring that it puts forward solutions appropriate to Canada, solutions that it can persuade the international community are acceptable and the right way to go. To accept a set of definitions made in some international forum where your nation's interests were not necessarily paramount isn't, I think, the desirable way to go.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
From that experience of yours, can that argument be made effectively by Canada?
9:55 a.m.
Chair, Sport Fishing Advisory Board, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
I believe so, yes. From my time as a salmon commissioner, I'm proud of the way that Canada has advanced its interests with respect to the United States. I participate, as does Owen, in the annual meetings of the International Pacific Halibut Commission. We don't apologize to anybody for making sure that Canada's interests are well protected, and nor should we in this particular context. It may well be that you create your own definition. If there's an artificial number, maybe you do more by predicting a greater amount in ways that suit your national interests. You've satisfied those other people. They're not going to carp and quibble because you have come up with a better mousetrap.
9:55 a.m.
Chair, Sport Fishing Advisory Board, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
I apologize.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
No, your testimony is fascinating. One of the concerns we've heard before this committee comes from commercial fishers. They are not, I'll be candid, trusting of the consultative process undertaken by DFO in setting up the MPAs. Some of it relates to the comment that you made earlier: they go through this process, but then at the last minute things are changed, and they're not sure how they are changed. How can we better deal with that side of the issue?
9:55 a.m.
Chair, Sport Fishing Advisory Board, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
That is the thrust of what I was trying to say in the first part of my presentation today. While I am sometimes an adversary in the recreational-commercial context, I fully know whom you got that message from, and I fully support the message that they brought, that the way the glass sponge reefs issue was handled in British Columbia poisoned the well for future consultation. A number of people who devoted a great deal of time and a considerable amount of money to try to come up with better ways to manage the harvest around the glass sponge reefs to meet both the conservation and the other interests felt that they had been betrayed. I don't think that's good for government. It's not anything to do with party or partisanship or anything else. As a number of people in this room know, I have a partisan background, but I am now a fisheries politician. I'm devoted to protecting fish, fisheries, and the people around them. In that context, we're all on the same side and should be.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, Mr. Kristianson.
Mr. Donnelly, you have three minutes, please.
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It's been argued that MPAs can be a tool to protect marine biodiversity like plants, animals, and their habitat. When we look at habitat specifically as an issue, and if we accept that habitat plays a key role in fisheries, do you feel that habitat produces and enhances certain species of fish and marine life? If you agree with that premise, do you think MPAs can be effective in terms of habitat protection?
9:55 a.m.
Chair, Sport Fishing Advisory Board, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
My short answer to both questions is yes.
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Okay.
You mentioned management, but proper management as well. I would add that enforcement is obviously key in managing.
For the recreational fishery, what are we talking about specifically in terms of proper management?
9:55 a.m.
Chair, Sport Fishing Advisory Board, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
In my last appearance before this committee, I lamented the fact that over a long period, under two different governments, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans had been starved for resources, and in particular was being starved of resources to properly manage the recreational fishery.
We were asking for a program called the recreational fisheries vision implementation, and we were telling government that we actually had the way to pay for it. We wanted the recreational licence fee increased substantially, and that money would have more than offset what we were asking government to spend. However, because of the cursed User Fees Act, that wasn't possible.
In fact, there is now in the hated omnibus bill something called the service fee act. This committee should be interested in that piece of legislation. My first reading of it is that it's a positive step forward. I would hope that if it moved forward in the proper way, it will provide a way in which the people who value recreational fishing, who believe that their sector is undervalued....
I pay $17 a year for access to all of the tidal water resources of the west coast of Canada. That's absurd. I would hope that the bill doesn't get through without people providing that proper look at it to make sure it meets the needs that I think everybody in this room has in common.
10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
I want to thank both of our guests for being here today.
We're going to break for a few minutes, but I want to ask my colleagues to please be very quick if you wish to talk to our guests. We have to get on with things because we may be interrupted by votes.
Mr. Kristianson, Mr. Bird, thank you again so much for travelling here and for your wonderful in-depth testimony.
Thank you very much.
10 a.m.
Chair, Sport Fishing Advisory Board, Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members.