Fisheries Committee on June 6th, 2017

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Each group, regardless of where they're at, whether they're east coast fishers, northern traditional hunters, or west coast first nations communities, all identify their areas as unique the moment they hear that these will be considered for an MPA. What I'm hearing from you is that an MPA must be managed.

[Sharon Ehaloak]

It can be managed. It also—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

But if you're going to manage it, that means, then, that you've discounted any activity at all in the area.

[Sharon Ehaloak]

Not necessarily.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Oh. Explain. I'm curious.

[Sharon Ehaloak]

For example....

Do you want to do the specifics, Jonathan, like the haul-outs and beluga calving grounds, or do you want me to?

[Jonathan Savoy]

In our conversations with communities in Nunavut, they have expressed great interest, for example, in commercial fisheries. For example, if a marine protected area is being established to manage a particular impact on marine mammals, there may be interest in nearby communities to pursue fisheries for subsistence, or potentially for commercial activities as well, within that marine protected area that is managing impacts, again, on marine examples, speaking hypothetically.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Enns.

[Eli Enns]

Yes, I think one thing you could look at is UNESCO's Man and the Biosphere Programme. Look at biosphere reserves. They have a core protected area and then zones of sustainable use. It's very similar to the approach to the Great Bear Rainforest, where you have conservancies and, emanating out from the conservancies, zones of ecosystem-based management approaches.

The no-go zone might be a sacred space, or it might be a particular part of that environment that has been highly taxed in previous years and you want to let it rebound. Emanating from that, you have these zones of sustainable use. I think the Man and the Biosphere Programme is very good. We need to pick it up in a more useful way.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

That's interesting. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

Mr. Donnelly, please, for three minutes.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In terms of protecting the marine ecosystem, the committee has heard a lot about the concept of balance between economic growth and protecting the environment.

Mr. Enns, I'm going to go to your comment about the “dysfunctional world view”. The federal government has departments and those departments have processes. Those processes are not always connected to the international community, the provinces or territories, indigenous nations' processes, or to local civic regional processes. What would you recommend to the federal government when we're looking at the idea of protecting the marine ecosystems, with MPAs being one of the tools in the tool box, but recognizing this dysfunctional world view? Do you have a comment about how the federal government, with all its departments, could address this big picture world view that you're commenting on?

[Eli Enns]

Yes, the substructure underneath those various jurisdictions that aren't really communicating with each other very well is the Constitution.

For example, in Mi'kmaq country, they're apprehensive about marine protected areas. They have terrestrial protected areas and then they have marine protected areas. They're not communicating with each other. What they're looking at is creating a Mi'kmaq protected area. It will still be an MPA. It will essentially be like putting a blanket over both of them. The marine protected area and the terrestrial protected area need to communicate with each other.

We stood a totem pole up in Fish Lake, in Chilcotin. My uncle Tim Paul carved that totem pole. We're from Nuu-chah-nulth, where the fish are going out to the open ocean. In the Chilcotin the fish come up the Chilcotin River and they spawn there. They're completely interconnected.

What you have available to you is the Constitution, which could create the connective tissue between these disconnected phenomena.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

It's probably a big challenge for the federal government to address the Constitution through the MPA process. It's an interesting suggestion, though.

You talked about terminal fisheries, with the weir and the gear types. Again, that's a fundamental change between how you see Canada operating its fishery and what you're recommending. That's another huge problem. Do you have a recommendation? The committee often asks for definitions of protection. Are you talking about no-take zones? Are we talking about improving the management within the ocean to protect either our fishery or nature? These are two slightly different values or goals.

Do you have a suggestion about gear types and management versus no-take protection areas for biodiversity and nature?

[Eli Enns]

I think we could stimulate the economy by investing in ecosystem restoration. Put a lot of money into ecosystem restoration and stand down on interception activities. I know that will be hard to swallow for a lot of people. I wouldn't go so far as to recommend a moratorium. The terminal fisheries you mentioned and what my grandmother Mary Hayes taught me about are very practical ways to go about starting to purposefully manage, river by river, the fisheries we have available. In the front end of that, I highly recommend a front-end investment in ecosystem restoration.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you very much, Mr. Enns and Mr. Donnelly.

As we normally do when we finish earlier than anticipated, I'm going to open the floor to quick questions. I'm not inviting you to do a Q and A or a discussion, but if you have points of clarification, quick questions that are on your mind, please feel free to ask them.

Do I have anybody for quick questions?

Mrs. Jordan, go ahead.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Clark, when we were in Prince Rupert one of the things we heard from the port authority was that the establishment of designated shipping lanes would be an added benefit, not only to the port but also to the marine protected area. Mr. Wellstood mentioned that they have designated shipping lanes in Vancouver. Do you see that as a benefit?

[Brian Clark]

I didn't know they weren't designated in Rupert. There are certainly routes that all the boats come in on. The pilots bring them in. Then there's the inland one for the ferries. I thought they were designated. I'm pretty sure they are, actually.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mr. Wellstood, did you want to comment on that?

[Chris Wellstood]

The main shipping route into ports like Rupert and Vancouver are crucial to the economy of Canada, and you need to identify them and almost protect them. They could go hand in hand with marine protected areas. If you neglect them and you blanket marine protected areas over specific areas, then you can end up with situations where different interests could hamper the economic growth and the movement of trade in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you.

Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Enns, I have a question for you. Up north, when we were speaking with the Inuit in the Northwest Territories, our observation was that their fishing techniques were moderately traditional. They didn't have the great big fishing boats out there. They hunted their whales from rather small vessels.

I have two questions. In your first nation, do you use, if you like, modern fishing techniques and gear to catch both your commercial and your ceremonial food and social fish? Second, of all the fish you catch, what percentage is commercial versus the other?

[Eli Enns]

We have the “mosquito fleet” on the west coast, meaning small vessels. Our source-based fishery has become non-viable because of the clear-cut logging of the salmon-spawning grounds. That's the quick answer.

Our traditional way of fishing was made illegal for many years, and it just recently—

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

That's the weir.

[Eli Enns]

Yes.