Evidence of meeting #74 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:05 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Those are many of the things that have been raised concerning why we should be looking at minimum standards. That is exactly what the minister is going to be asking the panel to take a look at. It would be a little early for me to comment on whether they should or shouldn't be included.
Jeff, do you want to add to that?
9:05 a.m.
Jeff MacDonald Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I was just going to say that in terms of the current practice of the establishment of MPAs, it's important to know that the way the Oceans Act is structured, all activities are considered not allowed until it's been determined that they are not incompatible with the conservation objectives.
It's probably not fair to say of the legislation that there aren't minimum standards; it's just that the approach is on a site-by-site and risk basis. Kevin is correct concerning whether this could be done through policy or regulations or other means.
I would draw your attention to section 353 of the act, which allows for the Governor in Council to make regulations that prescribe the restriction of certain activities in marine protected areas. The policy that informs this is extremely important, and the panel hopefully will be able to provide some guidance to the minister on that question.
9:05 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
It allows the minister but doesn't necessarily ensure that this is the case. Isn't that right?
9:05 a.m.
Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, the Oceans Act as currently written allows the Governor in Council to prescribe regulations on classes of activities, but as of yet there have been no regulations passed under the Oceans Act in that regard.
9:05 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
How does mining and oil and gas exploration enhance an MPA's ability to preserve ecological integrity?
9:05 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It doesn't necessarily enhance the ability to maintain ecological integrity. What an MPA does is look at—
9:05 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It could be allowed at present, and in some areas it is. The idea at the moment is that you look at what needs protection. We've identified that a certain habitat or a certain species needs protection, so we're going to apply that identification in an MPA. We look at the potential impacts on those things, and that is how we apply the protection.
The discussion around minimum standards is about whether we should be looking at a number of issues across the board. At the present time there isn't that approach, but it is the approach that Jeff talked about, which is that nothing is okay until we've identified that it is okay.
9:05 a.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
I think I'm going to run out of time. I want to talk about first nations co-management and enforcement, but I'll leave it until another round.
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
November 2nd, 2017 / 9:05 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
In the interim MPAs that were recently announced—I'm referring to the east coast—am I correct that existing fisheries on the east coast will continue to occur? I am referring to lobster and crab fishing.
9:05 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think we're talking about St. Anns Bank in particular.
9:05 a.m.
Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
In the most recent MPA that was established off Cape Breton, yes, there is a 75% core as a protection zone, which is restricted to all fishing. Then in the other parts of the zone it is restricted to mid-water trawl. The intention of that particular MPA is to protect the general biodiversity of St. Anns Bank. It is a very sensitive ecological area. It covers quite a bit of bathymetry, from shallower waters where there are—
9:05 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
For the new ones coming forward, the minister, I think, was clear that the fishing activities that were taking place in those that are proposed or anticipated will continue to occur.
9:05 a.m.
Director General, Oceans and Fisheries Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It may be that we're talking not about marine protected areas but about marine refuges, which are the other effective area-based measures, some of which were announced in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. The fishing activities that are not incompatible with the objectives of those particular closures are still allowed to continue.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you.
Does the department know of any fishery or community that has been detrimentally impacted by an MPA? We know, as my colleague pointed out, the impact of doing nothing or standing by and watching a fishery collapse. We've seen it in evidence in Newfoundland.
Briefly, do you know of any?
9:10 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I don't think—and I'll look at Jeff for this—that we know of any that have been specifically detrimentally impacted. One thing we would point out is that the MPAs are very focused in terms of the area we're protecting, and the total allowable catch that anybody is allowed to catch is not impacted by the MPA. In other words, you can still catch your quota or participate in the fishery, just not in that particular area.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I wonder whether it's specific, because of all the evidence, I'm personally not aware of a fishery or a community that has been negatively or detrimentally impacted.
My final question, because I'm going to share my time with my colleague Mr. Finnigan, is on protection. One issue we heard about loudly and clearly is that while there's support for MPAs, there is a question about the adequacy of protection and enforcement and about enforcement generally across fisheries. Could you briefly...?
9:10 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Enforcement really is a key to making this effective. If we have announced measures and don't actually enforce, they just don't have the same effect. We have stepped up our enforcement in the last while on MPAs. I think the most recent statistics I saw were 1,500 hours of enforcement in MPAs this year so far as against fewer than 1,000 overall last year.
We are trying to increase our enforcement and ensure that the measures are being effective and respected.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Thank you to my colleague for sharing his time, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing.
My question today may or may not be relevant to Bill C-55, but I want to talk about CAST, Collaboration for Atlantic Salmon Tomorrow. In my riding, of course, it has a major effect on determining whether we can help the salmon survive.
As you surely know, CAST is in trouble right now. There have been some issues, and it's very hard to know exactly where the issues lie. Tomorrow I will be meeting with two of the chiefs in my riding about this.
I would like to have some information about where we are and why this is stalled at this time. A lot of investment has been put in there, including private money, government, scientific research, universities. We're almost at a point at which some might pull the plug on this.
I would like information on where this stands and what the real issue is.
9:10 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I have forgotten what CAST stands for. It's Atlantic Salmon....
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
9:10 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
In an initiative that started two or three years ago with a number of stakeholders coming together on six projects—DFO has supported a number of them—there has been one that has been a challenge. It's about adult rearing. The idea is to grow fish, basically, in a hatchery and then release them as adults into the river. It's something that has been done in some areas. It's been done in areas in which there are basically no fish left. They're extirpated. It has not been done in an area we're trying to recover.
We have talked to the CAST proponents and worked closely with them, and there are two issues. One is around making sure that we've done the thorough science assessment and peer review of the plan, and the second is working with first nations to ensure that the first nations are fully engaged and fully consulted. They have more than an interest in this.
The discussions have been challenging with everybody over the past few months and we appreciate and are paying attention at the moment to them. I'm glad to hear that you'll be meeting with them as well.
