Evidence of meeting #86 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was adaptation.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Julie Gelfand  Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
David Normand  Director, Office of the Auditor General
Arran McPherson  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Oceans Science, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Donna Jean Kilpatrick  Director, Engineering and Technical Services, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Pierre Pepin  Senior Research Scientist, Science, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Keith Lennon  Director, Oceans Science Branch, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Do you monitor the pan-Canadian framework plan that is now in place to see if it's being worked on? I'm not asking for an opinion on it, I'm just asking—

9:35 a.m.

Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General

Julie Gelfand

Yes, we will be auditing it.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Is that something that you monitor to see if it is actually working toward targets and goals, or is it something that someone has to ask you to do?

9:35 a.m.

Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General

Julie Gelfand

I can advise you that the office is giving the government a couple of years essentially. They announced it in December of 2016, and we're now into 2018, and we're planning our 2020 audits. After they make an announcement of a new plan, we normally give them a few years to implement. My guess is that we will be doing audits on the implementation of the pan-Canadian framework.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

I have questions about small craft harbours, but they're specific questions. Would it be better to ask...?

9:35 a.m.

Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General

Julie Gelfand

The department, yes

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

I guess the other question I would go to is.... Actually, most of them are on small craft harbours, so thank you.

9:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you.

Mr. Arnold, go ahead for five minutes.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

In the absence of Environment and Climate Change Canada leadership, did DFO develop its own action plan to look at this, to do the assessments? How did they arrive at the conclusion that they needed to do these?

9:40 a.m.

Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General

Julie Gelfand

Environment Canada issued a framework on adaptation, which asked each department to look at its climate change risks and to start getting ready to adapt, essentially. That adaptation framework was released in 2011. We noted that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans did its first risk analysis in 2005, so they preceded Environment Canada's adaptation framework. They did their first assessment in 2005 and their second assessment in 2012.

Why did they do their first assessment in 2005? You'd have to ask them why they decided to start looking at it early.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

When did Environment and Climate Change Canada start giving the directive to—

9:40 a.m.

Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General

Julie Gelfand

It was in 2011.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

In 2011, so DFO actually started prior to that. That's interesting.

9:40 a.m.

Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General

Julie Gelfand

Absolutely. They were ahead of the curve.

Can I say that it's not often that I say anything positive about anything the government does?

9:40 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

9:40 a.m.

Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General

Julie Gelfand

I just want to be really clear. Audits usually find all the mistakes, everything that everybody hasn't done. I feel like I'm a grade-school teacher always hitting people over the head. It's such a pleasure to be able to say the department, and several departments in this case, actually did what they said they were going to do. I just want to make it clear that it's not often I get to do it. It's a good feeling to be able to say, “They've done a good job”.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

You might be joining the general public out there with that perception, unfortunately. It's not true. Government departments, I think, do yeoman's work, so kudos to them, especially DFO, if they've been out ahead on this one.

The report found that just over $500 million had been allocated to climate change adaptation since 2011. How much of that funding went to DFO over the years?

9:40 a.m.

Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General

Julie Gelfand

I don't have the breakdown of how much went to each department.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Okay.

Mr. Sopuck, do you have any further questions?

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB

No, I'm good for once.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Okay, I have five minutes here and three minutes here, and I don't have quite eight minutes left. Here's what I'm going to do.

Mr. Finnigan, would you be okay if I went to Mr. Donnelly and then back to you for your questions?

February 13th, 2018 / 9:40 a.m.

Liberal

Pat Finnigan Liberal Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB

Yes. I have just one question.

9:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

You have one question. Okay. Thank you, sir.

Go ahead, Mr. Donnelly.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's just to see if there's an observation, because it's to talk about the good news. You mentioned in your report to us that Fisheries and Oceans Canada was one of the five departments that made progress on climate change risks. Then you go on to talk about the 38 research projects and the 22 adaptation tools to monitor. How is it that this department is doing better on such a tough topic? You've heard comments on some areas where they don't do so well with public relations or fish stocks, rebuilding plans, etc. How is it, in your opinion or from your research, that the department is doing so well?

9:40 a.m.

Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General

Julie Gelfand

That would be a great question to ask the deputy minister.