Evidence of meeting #12 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I would ask that it be provided to the committee if possible.
What is the time, Mr. Chair?
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
The collaborative management agreement was ratified by 80% of the signatory nations. Can you tell us why 20% of the nations may not have signed on to ratify the agreement?
3:40 p.m.
President, Fraser Salmon Management Council
At the time, a few of them mentioned.... They had hesitations in working with DFO, basically; that was their word back to us. They wanted to see us put the stuff into real work and see results from it before they would step forward.
Some have gone through elections, as you know. Chiefs and councils go through different elections. We've had to go back to some communities to present our agreement again to the new council so they know what they were signed up for.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to all the witnesses for being here.
What we're detecting is a fairly high degree of success so far on what has been technically a very challenging situation.
One of the issues that came up in some of our earlier hearings had to do with the survivability of the salmon that had been, if you like, mechanically moved from one side of the Big Bar barrier to the other side.
Mr. Tones, given that you've seen some fish movement as recently as a couple of days ago, are we still in a situation where we're going to need fish cannons or helicopters or whatever to try to move the stocks around the barrier?
3:40 p.m.
Senior Vice-President and Western Canada District Manager, Peter Kiewit Sons ULC
I'll do my best to comment.
At this time, water levels are still quite high, so we haven't seen a lot of the migrations coming upriver yet.
I'll pass it over to Pat Wilson, the project manager for our Big Bar work, and maybe Pat could add a bit of colour to help answer that question.
July 21st, 2020 / 3:45 p.m.
Patrick Wilson Western Canada Project Sponsor and Big Bar Landslide Project Manager, Peter Kiewit Sons ULC
Thank you, Ryan.
I apologize; I probably can't do a great job of answering the question.
Our mandate as Kiewit on the project was to put the infrastructure in place and to design and build the system and the support systems to feed this proprietary equipment that was provided by Whooshh.
As Mr. Tones mentioned earlier, I think we did successfully remove a lot of the material that was in the river—more than anticipated. We're hoping the work that has been done to date will yield good results, but it's too early to tell with the very low quantities of salmon that have gone through.
As the contractor, we're not really the experts to tell you whether what has been done to date will be a success or not, but we're very hopeful. We'll continue to work with everyone to make sure that we do what we can to get the fish through.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I appreciate that. Thank you.
Chief Witzky, Chief Haskell or Chief Harry, can you comment on the work that's been done so far and your level of confidence on...? How close are we to allowing a reasonable number of fish to get by the barrier without some of these mechanical means?
Chief Witzky.
3:45 p.m.
Operations Manager, Fraser River Aboriginal Fisheries Secretariat
I'm a chief, but not an elected chief. They call me “the fish chief” back home here. I'm a traditional hereditary chief.
3:45 p.m.
Operations Manager, Fraser River Aboriginal Fisheries Secretariat
I'm also the indigenous project manager for the Big Bar landslide indigenous engagement committee, so I can answer your questions.
The more of those salmon get touched by human hands, the less chance they have of getting over the slide. All the scientists we've worked with are trying to get a system in place where we can get them over without touching them, without putting them in buckets or tanks. The pneumatic tubes or the Whooshh trademark system that we have put in place successfully put one chinook over this past weekend. It's the best way we've found to get the salmon over the obstruction.
We don't plan on using any helicopters. Last year, that was a very tough task. The salmon suffered immensely. They were already holding for a month below the slide. Then to be taken on a helicopter ride, which is not normal.... They were falling back. They were dying.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I guess the major part of my question is this: How close do you think we are to the time when we don't need Whooshh or anything, to the time when the salmon will be able to get up and back again through this obstruction without any human hands or any other means? Is there a fish ladder? Is there something else happening there? How much more work needs to be done before we're ready to say that this is done and that the fish can do what they naturally do?
3:45 p.m.
Operations Manager, Fraser River Aboriginal Fisheries Secretariat
That one I'll definitely answer. There's going to be a fish ladder needed, much like at Hell's Gate. Because of the water levels and the amount of rock deep in the river there, there's no other way there. That decision is already on the table to be hashed over by the parties. We'll be looking to the government for the funding, of course.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
It was interesting to hear some of the comments about the management council. After we finish specifically focusing on the Big Bar situation, this committee is going to segue into a broader discussion about the health of Pacific salmon stocks. Do you see the management council structure as being a good framework for the bigger conversation that we're going to need about how to actually restore the stocks to abundance?
3:45 p.m.
Operations Manager, Fraser River Aboriginal Fisheries Secretariat
I'll try to answer a little bit of that. I might also rely on President Darren to jump in. The Fraser Salmon Management Council is unique. It's never been done in the history of DFO. I talked about DFO as being put in place for policing Indians. Our role is significant. Co-management equals survival. Right now, we're struggling with the long-term funding for the council. Once that's in place.... We have the capacity. We have the expertise. We have the skills. We just don't have the money. We're ready to move forward.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon. Special thanks to those appearing before the committee today. I really enjoyed the presentations you delivered. I especially liked the images Mr. Witzky evoked of the essential connection we have with our natural environment, of which we are humbled to be a part.
I feel what is happening right now are symptoms. We spoke of waters being deeper and the rise in water levels being greater than before.
I would like to hear from the people representing first nations communities about all of the symptoms being observed. Of course, we are talking about Big Bar, but on a larger scale, we are talking about all the salmon in British Columbia.
3:50 p.m.
Operations Manager, Fraser River Aboriginal Fisheries Secretariat
I can start off.
In B.C. as a whole, there is an organization that we work closely with. It's the First Nations Fisheries Council. It's led by executive director Jordan Point. He might have been a witness here in the past.
We're Fraser Basin-specific, the Fraser Salmon Management Council, so we deal with the headwaters out to the ocean area for Fraser salmon only, but we are poised to work with the First Nations Fisheries Council, which is B.C.-wide, and we do work with them closely.
Again, I hate to keep hashing on it, but funding is always an issue. Funding stops first nations from fully participating in our rightful roles to protect the resources for everybody, not just for first nations, but for children of fishermen who angle, commercial fishermen, bears, eagles, etc.
That's all I have to add. Darren might have something else as well.
Thank you.
3:50 p.m.
President, Fraser Salmon Management Council
Yes. When it comes to the FSMC province-wide, I think that was the intention of our starting up just with the Fraser River. The initial focus was on the management of salmon, but we had plans in terms of developing this agreement and in developing the organization that our first nations would like to be involved with fully for the rebuilding of the stocks.
As Greg mentioned, we do work with the FNFC, and we are developing an MOU with that organization, as we all like to be on the same page when it comes to doing projects. Because of the limited funding, as Greg mentioned, we all want to be working on the same initiatives; if we are both doing the same thing, we're kind of spinning our wheels and not really utilizing the money to its fullest extent. I think that's the most important thing about us being in B.C., about the first nations organizations in B.C. With that open dialogue, that really happens. It is really important.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
I do not know whether Mr. Harry wanted to say something as well. If not, I will continue.
You talked about funding, and I understand that it is critical to all the work you do. I insisted on knowing what you wanted, because I am interested in what traditional or ancestral knowledge can contribute, and what you can share with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.
In terms of funding, could you give us a rough idea? That way, it would be possible to see exactly what work needs to be done and how much money is needed to do it properly. I assume you mean the associations' operating budgets, not the salmon-related work being done in one place or another.
