Fisheries Committee on April 26th, 2021

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

Last week, the B.C. Court of Appeal once again affirmed that the five Nuu-chah-nulth nations' aboriginal right is a high priority in their court case.

This is for Ms. Reid. Will the department recognize the priority of the nations' right and its importance to the economic and social well-being of their fishing communities and our west coast economy, instead of continuing to fight the five Nuu-chah-nulth nations in court?

[Rebecca Reid]

Thank you, Mr. Johns. We do recognize the court-defined right of those five nations. We do.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

So recognizing the importance of last week's B.C. Court of Appeal decision, what actions will the department be taking for the 2021 fishing season to increase the allocations of chinook, coho, and other species in keeping with the priority of the five nations' aboriginal right and a generous approach to chinook and coho specifically, and what recommendations will you be bringing to the minister?

[Rebecca Reid]

We are still reviewing the court decision, of course, as you know, and we are also undergoing negotiations with the five nations from a reconciliation perspective. They do have a fishery management plan in place now for their rights-based fishery.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

So even in times of lower returns, do you agree that if any fishing takes place, the first nations' aboriginal rights fisheries have priority after conservation, and also, do you agree that this priority includes the rights-based economic fisheries of the five Nuu-chah-nulth nations as the courts have stated?

[Rebecca Reid]

The rights priority would follow conservation. There's FSC that needs to be taken into account along with treaty rights, but, yes, those are the priorities we are managing.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

Dr. Jones, in 2018 you published an important paper that described the profound physiological impact of sea lice on young sockeye salmon. Do you think this information should have been included in DFO's assessment of whether salmon farms are a risk to Fraser sockeye salmon, given that the sea lice outbreaks we hear about, it seems, every year now suggest that the farmers are having trouble controlling sea lice?

[Dr. Simon Jones, Research Scientist, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

The paper we published in 2019 was a continuation of work that we had begun in 2013, when we had first published on the impacts of sea lice on sockeye salmon. Your question, I believe, referred to risk assessments. We have not conducted a risk assessment, per se, on sea lice. However, published works such as the paper you described and others that we publish do serve as alternative sources of scientific advice that are provided into the department.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

Mr. Mazier, you have five minutes or less, please.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for coming out this afternoon.

The committee has heard repeatedly that out-of-control pinniped populations are decimating juvenile Pacific salmon populations and that this is contributing to ongoing stock declines.

Dr. Carl Walters stated that he had worked with the Pacific Balance Pinniped Society “to develop proposals for commercial and first nations' harvesting of seals and sea lions, aimed at reducing pinniped populations” to salmon stock recoveries. The witness went on to say, and I quote, “Those proposals went into DFO two years ago, and the department has been sitting on them for over two years with one excuse after another for not taking any action.”

What is the status of the proposals submitted to DFO by the Pacific Balance Pinniped Society?

[Andrew Thomson, Regional Director, Science, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

I'd like to take that question, Mr. Mazier. In my previous capacity, I was the regional director of fisheries management. I was responsible for all fisheries management, including marine mammal management.

The proposals that came in from the Pacific Balance Pinniped Society were assessed under a new and emerging fisheries policy. That policy, the same as is done for every new and emerging fishery, requires quite a significant amount of information to be provided by proponents in order that we can properly assess any potential impacts of the new fishery not just on the target stock but of course the ecosystem impacts and the impacts that the fishery may have elsewhere.

We have been in conversations with the Pacific Balance Pinniped Society and others that have proposed these things to try to get a full picture so that we can assess what the impacts might be of any potential pinniped harvest on not just the pinnipeds, obviously, but also other stocks. As we all know, pinnipeds are a consumer of salmon. They're also a consumer of prey species of salmon and a consumer of fish that prey on salmon. There's a significant amount of ecosystem impacts that you'd have to fully understand and study to make a broad determination as to whether or not a fishery should proceed.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

So basically, over the last two years there's been no action taken out in the field or anything. It's still under study, as far as you're concerned,

[Andrew Thomson]

No. We've been in conversation with the society as well as other proponents to try to fill in those information gaps. We've had our science branch colleagues out studying some of these potential impacts. We've convened two symposiums of international researchers to try to fill in some of those information gaps to give the department and those who may be applying it a full picture as to what the impacts of pinnipeds may be and what potential actions should be taken.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Okay.

Ms. Reid, I'll turn to you for my next question. In April 2021 a report prepared by BC Salmon Farmers provided an analysis of the economic impact in Surrey, B.C., of the decision by the federal government to close open net-pen salmon farms in the Discovery Islands region. The report indicated that “potentially more than 1,500 people province-wide could lose their jobs in the near term”, and “salmon farming companies will lose almost $200 million in ongoing annual revenue from salmon farming and processing.”

Did the DFO conduct its own socio-economic analysis prior to taking that decision? If so, can you explain what the analysis consisted of and who was consulted?

[Rebecca Reid]

I would say that the decision taken was around the risk evaluation and other considerations related to the transfer of fish into Discovery Islands. While there was some socio-economic information collected through our policy and economic analysis branch, there wasn't a study. It wasn't an extensive amount of work. We had some conversations in general with the industry about the size and value of the industry but not related to this specific decision.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

This is impacting 1,500 people province-wide and $200 million.

Why was there no detailed transition plan to support the affected workers in the local communities?

[Rebecca Reid]

The decision was taken with respect to this particular location. It doesn't affect the rest of aquaculture across British Columbia, so it's for this particular location.

The question put before the minister was whether these fish could be transferred to this location or not. That was based on the factors we consider around risk, health and elements of reconciliation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie, for five minutes or less.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Reid, I'll ask you to act as traffic cop here, and direct the questions to whomever is in the best position to answer them.

On an ongoing basis, from time to time, we see announcements of various programs that have to do with habitat restoration, or anything that preserves or basically restores salmon stocks on the west coast.

Does anybody have any idea about how many of these programs exist right now, or have existed within the last couple of years?

[Rebecca Reid]

To clarify the question, how many restoration-type projects—

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Or with any kind of program that has to do with restoring or preserving salmon stocks, does anybody have a fix on the number of these programs?

[Rebecca Reid]

For sure. Would you like me to describe some of them?

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

No. I just need to know that somebody has the list, because the next questions that fall out of that are the following. Are you comfortable, overall, when you look at the accumulative aspects of all of these programs, that are they getting us anywhere? Is there coordination? Is there somebody looking at the ground that we're covering, and identifying gaps where new programs could happen, or where there's duplication of effort and we're spinning our wheels?

[Rebecca Reid]

That is one of the key pillars of the Pacific salmon strategy and the funding that was provided, the idea being that we need to have a better coordinated and integrated approach to support the many different restoration programs that are going on right now. The BCSRIF, the salmon restoration and innovation fund, has actually funded programs to create that priority list and priority setting exercise.

We do see the Pacific salmon strategy as creating the governance around restoration and stewardship from outside of the department, which will significantly improve the way we manage and plan.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

The Pacific salmon strategy creates the framework, but has the framework been filled in? If it were your money the department was putting out there to these various projects, would you be satisfied that we were getting back some of the value for that money?