Evidence of meeting #30 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.
A video is available from Parliament.
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Conservative
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Liberal
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Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
This is an interesting conversation today.
Mr. Johnson, the predator management system or approach that's being used in the State of Washington focuses on what they call “problem sea lions and seals”. Is that kind of what you've been talking about as well?
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President, Nuu-chah-nulth Seafood Limited Partnership
Yes, we're talking about the problem seals. I call them “habitualized” ones, but they are the ones that come into the rivers when we are releasing fry.
There's a really simple one. The province allows loggers or forestry to put their log booms right beside the mouth of a river. If they weren't there, then likely there wouldn't be a staging place for sea lions to go and clean up all of our fry when we release them. It's things like that.
We can put things in perspective. It's not about a big giant cull; it's about being precise and dealing with the ones that are stopping you from collecting your brood stock and stopping you from releasing your fry.
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Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
You're the second person to tell us that, so we'll make sure that is reflected in the study somewhere. I appreciate that very much.
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Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Mr. Beamish, we heard from our panel the other day a lot of commentary about things that the State of Washington is doing that we should look at. Do you have any reflections on that?
I think we've lost Mr. Beamish. The more I look, the more he's not there.
All right, I was going to also ask about—here he is. He's back. Mr. Beamish, sorry, I had a question.
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Research Scientist (Retired), As an Individual
I had a barking dog. I had to go and stop it.
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Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I hate it too when that happens. I sometimes get wrestling matches in front of my desk.
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Research Scientist (Retired), As an Individual
I'm sorry. I had to stop it.
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Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
No problem.
The question was this. We've heard a lot from a previous panel about things that the State of Washington has been doing, some of which they liked and some of which they didn't. Do you have any reflections on the State of Washington specifically and some of the measures they are taking?
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Research Scientist (Retired), As an Individual
Washington has a focus on chinook, coho and steelhead. They represent a fairly small percentage of the total catch by all countries, but, that said, they have some awfully good scientists who have produced some really good papers, again focusing on the mechanisms that regulate salmon when they enter the ocean. The mechanisms still look like a fish that grows faster and quicker in the first weeks to months, exceeds a threshold, and then stores enough fat to survive the first ocean winter, and that's only 3% or 4% of the population.
Washington-based scientists have done some excellent work, but so have Alaska-based scientists.
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Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
That gets to the next question, then. Of course, it spins off the work that you have done with that international group of scientists. Evidently there's some shared interest here, and that is in the availability or abundance of fish to catch.
Are there some interests that conflict between the countries, or even between the scientists from the countries?
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Research Scientist (Retired), As an Individual
Well, I told you guys that I'm old, so I don't know if I can answer that. Everybody knows that science progresses because we disagree with each other in a professional way, and that's important.
My experience is that we get along pretty well, and for years, if I've needed a bit of information from any salmon scientist anywhere around the Pacific, I've sent them an email, and usually the next day I have that information. The co-operation is wonderful.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Do you get the sense that the DFO has been engaging with some of our international would-be partners in this?
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Research Scientist (Retired), As an Individual
I think so. They are probably meeting today on the North Pacific Anadromous Fish Commission.
My experience started in the 1970s, when we had very close co-operation internationally, and I think that the co-operation is still there.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I'm sorry, Mr. Hardie. Your time is up.
We'll now go to Mr. Trudel for two and a half minutes or less.
Mr. Beamish, I wouldn't worry about Mr. Hardie getting cut a bit short. He has been sorry a lot lately.
5:05 p.m.
Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
One of the things I see in Parliament is that we always run out of time to talk about important issues. We'll try to do as much as we can in the two minutes we have left.
My question is for Dr. Angel, who gave a very detailed answer to my previous question.
Dr. Angel, in terms of the science of the process—if I can put it that way—you mentioned that the scientists' studies were very important and necessary for the rehabilitation and conservation of salmon. You even talked about how hatcheries operate.
Do you think that resources and evidence from scientists are being sufficiently used at present?
Are all the scientific research tools properly in place to protect salmon?
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Fisheries Program Manager, Nuu-chah-nulth Tribal Council
No. There's opportunity for science to be better used in the management process, absolutely.
We still struggle to get access to all the information that we need to make good decisions. The tables we work at with DFO and others are still lacking data. There's scientific research that could be integrated more closely with management, absolutely.
5:05 p.m.
Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Dr. Beamish, I'll ask you the same question.
Do you think scientific data is being used enough or used appropriately to address the challenges of protecting salmon habitat?
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Research Scientist (Retired), As an Individual
Yes, I do, but I don't think we have the data that we need. We need to see a bigger picture and we need to see differently.
What data we do have we are using, but we don't have the information that allows us to see a bigger picture. We need the missing pieces if we're going to understand what is regulating Pacific salmon in a future of changing ocean ecosystems.
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Bloc
Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
How could we get that information?
My question is for Dr. Beamish or Dr. Angel.
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Research Scientist (Retired), As an Individual
We can obtain it, first of all, by recognizing that we do not have the information that we need. What we don't understand is how climate is changing the carrying capacity of the coastal oceans, which affects the overall survival, the ability of fish to survive through the first ocean winter. That's the information we need.
I can't remember who it was in this group, but earlier someone proposed that. Maybe it was Mr. Arnold.
That's what we need. That's my idea. Remember, I keep telling you guys I'm old, and it's essentially a hypothesis, but I'll bet a bottle of wine on it.
