Fisheries Committee on June 2nd, 2021

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, they need to hear from you soon, because your department is losing their confidence. They want to see that you're in charge of that department, because there was no good reason for that decision to be made, and it had such an impact on those fishers' lives. I'm hoping to see an announcement to correct things and redress the situation, and we're encouraging you to come out with one very soon.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

As I have said, Mr. Johns, the decision will be made in collaboration with the industry, but I am very much committed to solving this issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

We'll now go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the minister for appearing at committee today. It's been a long time since you've appeared at this committee.

Minister, who is ultimately responsible for leading DFO?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That would be me.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Are all of the fisheries decisions you make based on science?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Science would be the primary driver of the decisions that we make, but there are other considerations that are taken into account.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

As much as I know you want us to be excited about the funding announced, the committee has heard repeatedly that the resources need to be paired with the right plans and actions to restore Pacific salmon. The state of Pacific salmon today shows your government's approach over the past five and a half years has failed to the point that the committee has been warned of impending collapses and extinctions. The salmonid enhancement program is chronically underfunded, and the strategic salmon health initiative is lapsing because resources have not been provided.

Why do you refuse to provide the resources needed for proven and essential work like these initiatives?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I would say that we have actually, as a government, done a great deal with regard to salmon enhancement. There is more that needs to be done, and I could not agree with you more that we need to do it in collaboration with the organizations that work on the ground in these really important areas. We are committed to doing that.

That's one reason that the salmon strategy we will be putting forward will be done in collaboration with the province, the territory, with first nations, with environmental organizations, with industry and with anglers.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It's interesting that you say you'll be working with all of these groups, because in 2018, your government worked with the B.C. government, first nations, academics, industry and others in developing a science advisory report that followed the emergency assessment of Fraser steelhead. I have three questions on this.

First, are you aware that DFO unilaterally diluted the conclusions of the emergency assessment and issued a science advisory report with conclusions that were not scientifically defensible?

As well, what actions have you taken to ensure that this assault on intergovernmental co-operation and scientific process is investigated and prevented in the future?

Finally, how can Canadians trust you and your department to make impartial, science-based decisions when your officials discarded the science in order to protect the status quo, rather than protecting fish on the brink of extinction?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Our government has made extremely difficult decisions when it comes to fisheries management. We've also based our decisions on science. I will stand firmly behind our process with regard to the peer-reviewed science that we used to make our decisions. Management decisions are often very difficult because they, of course, impact livelihoods—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Those management decisions disregarded the science that was provided, the professional science, and your department discarded it in order to make another decision.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I would say, sir, that because of previous cuts that we have seen from the previous government, DFO science was challenged. We have been working very hard to make sure that we are able to invest in science again. We are making sure that we have the right tools in place to make these very difficult decisions.

I will say that this government is committed to making sure that we take that very seriously and that we make sure those decisions are based on peer-reviewed science within the department.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Again, I will say that your department manipulated the science and provided a report that diluted the science that was there.

I want to move on.

Minister, the Adams River, in my riding of North Okanagan—Shuswap, was once known as the richest 300 acres in the world because of the sockeye and other salmon that used to spawn and hatch there.

For years we've seen continuing salmon declines, and your status quo management is not working. Your actions and inactions in this year alone have hurt British Columbians and the families and communities they support. Your Discovery Islands decision was announced with no plan for the hundreds of workers it will affect. By your sudden regulatory reinterpretation, 600 B.C. prawn harvesters had their livelihoods put on notice, along with 9,000 British Columbians who depend on a public fishery for their workforce and employment, because you have again rejected the proposal for mark-selective fisheries. Juvenile wild Pacific salmon continue to be obliterated by pinnipeds, yet you refuse to accept proposals for their management.

Despite a mandate from your Prime Minister, you've also failed to make—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold. I'm sorry, but you're out of time.

We'll now go to Mr. Cormier for five minutes or less, please.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, thank you for being with us.

Caraquet Bay, Chaleur Bay and the Gulf of St. Lawrence are right in front of me. As you know, the waterways in that region are used by fishers of lobster, crab, herring and several other species.

I'd like to say thank you, because this year, as a result of your action and all of our discussions, Coast Guard ships, hovercraft, were able to provide icebreaker service. In my constituency, contracts have been signed with third parties, such as Ocean Group and ECO Technologies, and that has allowed crab fishers, even lobster fishers, to start the season earlier, which made it possible to limit interaction with Atlantic right whales. That has paid off. In fact, the quota has been almost fully met.

There are still challenges. Some areas are closed right now, which is causing problems.

Madam Minister, thank you again. I'd like you to remind those who are watching or listening, and even people in my community, why we're protecting right whales. A lot of markets are at stake and not protecting them could have significant consequences.

I'd like you to talk about that for us, Madam Minister.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I would first like to thank the harvesters in your area who every day.... I know it can be challenging when we have to shut down an area because of a whale sighting, but we've been working hand in hand with industry to make sure that there is the least disruption possible when it comes to making sure we are protecting the North Atlantic right whale.

Our government has been committed to making sure we do everything we possibly can. There are very few of these creatures left. I think there are fewer than 100 at this point.

It's important for us to make sure we do it for a number of reasons, not only because it's the right thing to do, because we share the oceans with these whales, but also because it impacts our ability to sell our products overseas. Other countries want us to have good measures in place to protect these creatures.

Our government has made sure there is money available to help harvesters with regard to some of the measures that we've had to put in place, including the Atlantic fisheries fund, which has been able to test things like easy-breaking rope and ways to track. We've also put in place the ghost gear fund, which was extremely popular when we launched it two years ago. It was then an $8-million project to clean up ghost gear. In the budget this year, it was increased with another $10 million to make sure we are dealing with ghost gear.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

I would just like to share with committee members how our fishers have evolved and are aware they need to protect these whales.

In closed areas, some fishers are now using ropeless traps and an electronic device that brings the traps to the surface. This was made possible thanks to investments that you and your department made. I thank you for that.

On that note, people are wondering if they can count on you and rest assured that, next year, funds and services like the Coast Guard and other third parties can help make sure that the fishing season starts as early as possible, as it did this year. We've seen the impact it has had. Factory employees were able to work, fishers were able to almost fully meet their quota and the entire community is better off.

Can we count on you and your department to ensure we get these services next year?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You can count on us to make sure we're continuing to work with the industry to find out what works for it. We want to continue to have the conversations to see where the challenges are so that we can address them. We recognize how difficult this can be, but we are there to make sure that we're not only protecting the North Atlantic right whales but also that we're able to support the harvesters in this initiative.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you. I don't know if I have any time left, but I will ask you a quick question.

Could you tell us about the major investment, of $300 million, for small craft harbours that is really needed in coastal communities?

I'd like you to say a few words about that before my time is up.

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

We were extremely pleased to see $300 million in the budget, recognizing that our small craft harbours actually drive our rural local economies and coastal communities. They are not in good shape. They need a lot of work, basically, because of things like climate change.

The budget has not been significant enough for them over the last number of years. Our government has actually put in close to $1 billion on small craft harbours over the last five years. This $300 million is going to be an added benefit to our coastal communities that rely on those harbours.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you very munch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

We will now go to Mr. Trudel for two and a half minutes, please.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, I'd like to backtrack a little. Earlier I mentioned the director general of the Fédération québécoise pour le saumon atlantique, Myriam Bergeron. As part of this study, the Fédération shared some exciting solutions with us for improving Pacific salmon management in British Columbia. Ms. Bergeron told us about river‑by‑river management, with which you are no doubt familiar and which we practice in Quebec, and it works well. In fact, British Columbia could use us as a model.

Have you or your department considered a model like Quebec's for managing Pacific salmon stocks?

[Bernadette Jordan, Liberal, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

We take into account a number of different initiatives when we are talking about managing our resources in all our rivers and in our ocean space.

With regard to the wild Pacific salmon, there are a number of people who do really great work in B.C. and do everything they can to protect and conserve the salmon.

I am not aware of whether there is a river-to-river system in place in British Columbia. I could perhaps turn to my deputy to see if he can answer that question.