Fisheries Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[Sylvain Vézina]

I'm sorry. I didn't understand the question, so that's why I asked—

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Sure.

[Adam Burns]

I can answer.

Mr. Chair, we certainly have been working with the industry on what policy flexibilities within the management of that shrimp fleet would be useful for them because we are mindful that the harvesters themselves are better able to identify the flexibilities than we are. We are working on that.

I think my colleague did reference buddying up, where two harvesters can operate from the same vessel, thus reducing their costs.

Some of those measures have been put in over the course of the last decade as the stock has been coming down, so we're working with the fleet on what else might be of use for them this year.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for five minutes or less, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. Chair, I'll start first with a question from Mr. Small, and then I'll come back.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

It's your time. Do what you like with it.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There have been some rumblings that the PMO directly interfered with this redfish allocation. Is that possible?

[Adam Burns]

I wouldn't be aware of such political discussions.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Is that why the minister is not here today? Is it because it wasn't her decision and she doesn't feel like she has to answer for it? Maybe the Prime Minister should be here.

[Adam Burns]

I can't speak to the minister's availability, Mr. Chair.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Well, that's what I'm hearing from stakeholders—that the PMO got directly involved in this decision and that the direction came down from the PMO.

I have a question for you. How much say are the NGOs, such as Oceans North and Oceana, having? They're coming out now and saying that we shouldn't fish this redfish. Do they have a seat at the table on this decision?

[Adam Burns]

Environmental groups do, indeed, participate in some of our advisory committees, and their perspectives are also shared with the minister and are used to help inform the minister's considerations related to the sustainable management of fisheries.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to go back to a question that some of us have been asking about timing. The officials probably have a more precise thing, but my understanding is that there's a sort of prime period—like for any species—for fishing redfish, which starts, I guess, in late spring to early summer. I don't know about the summer, but then there's another period again in the fall. In order to do the consultations that you're doing and to make the decisions that you have to on the TAC and the allocation per licence, will all of that be done so that there can be a spring season, or is the spring to early summer season gone and we're now really talking about a fall season?

[Adam Burns]

I'll just correct myself with regard to the last question. The environmental groups in the case of the redfish advisory committee are observers to that committee and are not direct participants.

In terms of the member's question, Mr. Chair, there are a number of considerations that will need to be taken into account in terms of the management measures to avoid bycatch, protect the spawning occurrence and so on. However, our objective and what we're working towards—and I see no issue with achieving that—is that there would be a summer fishery. The spawning closure isn't until June 15, so the first actual fishing opportunity would likely begin then.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It would begin then but not before.

So, do you think that you can get through the process you're going through, allocate the quota to the individual licence-holders, and then actually start the season in time?

[Adam Burns]

Yes. The minister would need to take the suballocation decisions, as well as the other management-plan decisions. That is the plan that we're working towards: to have the fishery able to be open for June 15.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Obviously, there's been some discussion of the minister's announcement on the allocation of percentages in terms of access to licences, 20% mostly going from the offshore to the inshore, to two different commercial groups.

All of this current structure and arrangement goes back to the Atlantic sharing arrangement—I think it was in the 1990s—when this was set out for redfish, was it not? How did we come to the stage where the allocations or the percentages are what they are? Now there's a shift, and we're having some discussion about whether that shift is enough.

[Adam Burns]

I can't speak to the specifics of the evolution of the quota key through the eighties and early nineties. I can say there absolutely were changes. There was the establishment of a fleet structure that occurred I think in the eighties, but I'm not able to speak to the specifics of that. But certainly by the time the fishery went under moratorium in 1994, there was the established quota key we're referring to now, with the offshore and the various midshore and inshore allocations, which is the basis upon which the minister's decision is founded.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

We've always gone by a willing buyer/willing seller policy at DFO. If there are going to be more allocation changes, will DFO consider the willing buyer/willing seller policy or will that be disregarded as it has been with the elvers?

[Adam Burns]

In the case of the redfish fishery, it's been a fishery under moratorium for about 30 years—almost exactly 30 years I think if my math is correct. On that basis—that generation that has passed—there is not that economic dependence on this fishery, and so the minister did take the opportunity to advance some policy objectives, including supporting the gulf shrimp fleet. But to answer your question, willing buyer/willing seller remains the preferred approach in transitioning access to indigenous communities in response to their rights-based harvesting activities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins.

We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey for five minutes or less, please, or to Mr. Kelloway. Okay, it will be the "new Mr. Morrissey".

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Okay. We're back to me. That's good stuff.

I want to go back to some facts here.

How long are the consultations? We're getting mostly good feedback in terms of ideas, suggestions and recommendations from many members here. What's the length of time of the consultations that will help inform further decisions that will be made potentially by the minister?

[Todd Williams]

I can speak to that question.

Looking at consultations, next week there are four days of meetings in Halifax, the first two days focused on fisheries management measures, including TAC recommendations from harvesters, and the other two days focused on suballocations for those various fleets. We'll provide them another week for written commentary. The minister will be making a decision on the TAC, and any other key fisheries management decisions, to get this fishery operationalized and under way by mid-June.

I would just add that, of course, the consultation period does extend beyond that. For example, with indigenous consultations, one could not expect to start and complete these consultations within the next couple of months. That will continue on—again in time for phase two of the minister's announcement—in a couple of years, for those suballocations as an example.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Right.

For those watching at home and for us here, who's being invited, who's being engaged, to come to these consultations to provide feedback from an offshore perspective, an inshore perspective and a first nations' perspective? If I'm missing other groups please tell me. I want to try to get this back into a facts box.