Fisheries Committee on Feb. 29th, 2024

[Patrice Element]

My comments are somewhat along the same lines as Mr. Lanteigne's.

You asked whether we felt we were properly heard at the advisory committees. Unfortunately, at these advisory committees, we feel that things are being imposed on us while we are told that we're the ones who decided them. That's what the overall tone is like.

When it comes to redfish, in particular, we think the solution would be to revise the allocation percentages to the various fleets in favour of shrimp vessels. For us, the decision is totally inexplicable, both in terms of sustainable fishing criteria and the protection of the ecosystem.

We still have hope. We live on hope these days. We hope that the decision will be changed, but that will take some help, especially from—

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

To conclude, we're missing the voices of those people who had the historic shares. They were supposed to be here today, but they are not. We're missing those perspectives. We're also missing the input of the Minister of Environment. It would be great if he could come and give us his views on this. If the committee could hear from these people, what would you say?

This morning, at around nine o'clock, the Mersey Venture was out at sea. She was skimming the Gully Marine Protected Area. It's not clear in what context this happened.

Does all of this worry you?

[Patrice Element]

There are certainly problems associated with the return of large vessels to the gulf. For example, this could affect the amount of incidental bycatch of vulnerable or commercially important species. These vessels also have a much greater impact than ours on the seabed and on the ecosystem in general.

Yes, we are worried about this, not only because we represent shrimp harvesters, but also because we are people from the maritime regions. There's a reason why these vessels haven't been in the gulf since the 1990s. I don't claim to be impartial, but there are impartial people out there who are extremely concerned about the return of these large vessels.

When you make a trawl tow of 150,000 pounds in one go, you can accidentally do irreparable harm to certain resources or species, such as white hake or cod. Indeed, we're not talking about resources, but species.

So, yes, we are worried about the potential impacts of these vessels on the ecosystem, which are in no way comparable to what we're currently seeing.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Element.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, MP Desbiens.

That concludes this hour of testimony

I want to thank both witnesses for their expert testimony today, and for their time and for appearing.

We will suspend for a few minutes while we transition to our next round of witnesses.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Welcome back, everyone.

Welcome to our second panel today.

We have, on Zoom, as an individual, Dominique Robert, professor and Canada research chair in fisheries ecology at the Institut des sciences de la mer, Université du Québec à Rimouski. Also, from the Coopérative des capitaines propriétaires de la Gaspésie, we have Claudio Bernatchez. From the Fish, Food & Allied Workers Union, we have Jason Spingle, the secretary-treasurer.

Thank you for taking the time to appear today.

You will each have five minutes or less for your opening statement.

We will start with Mr. Dominique Robert, please.

[Dr. Dominique Robert, Professor and Canada Research Chair in Fisheries Ecology, Institut des sciences de la mer, Université du Québec à Rimouski, As an Individual]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank all committee members for having me here today.

I am a professor and Canada Research Chair in Fisheries Ecology at the Institut des sciences de la mer of the Université du Québec à Rimouski. Since 2018, my research team has been working in collaboration with Fisheries and Oceans Canada researchers to study the ecology of the redfish resurgence in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. The aim of this research is to understand the environmental factors that control redfish recruitment, diet composition, growth, and movements in the gulf. I therefore consider that I am familiar with the redfish file.

I was first asked to comment on the scales used to allocate the redfish quota in relation to the critical situation faced by shrimp harvesters. The 10% share of the 25,000 tonne overall quota allocated to shrimp harvesters was considered very disappointing by them. I can well understand their disappointment, given that once this 2,500-tonne allocation is divided among the 80 existing shrimp fishing licences, it only represents about 70,000 pounds per licence, a quantity that would not enable a captain to make a profit from this fishery.

Many observers decried the fact that, as it happened in the past, the offshore sector got the lion's share of the fishery, with 58.69% of the total allowable catch. However, it would have been difficult for the minister to ignore historical shares in the redfish fishery when setting allocations. One criterion consistently used by the department to establish shares when reopening a fishery, or when moving from a competitive fishery to a fleet sharing system, is the consideration of historical shares.

I have been working for a long time on Atlantic halibut in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. This is a species for which the fishery went from marginal during the period from 1970 to 2000 to very lucrative starting in the 2010s. At the time of the rapid resurgence of the stock, it was also necessary to settle on a formula for sharing the quota among eight fleets, and such a formula, based on historical shares in the fishery, was established in 2007. In 2011, Ernst & Young was commissioned to evaluate this sharing scheme. The firm based its analysis on the management of several other stocks and concluded that the consideration of historical shares was appropriate. It was therefore expected that historical shares would be considered for the redfish fishery, like they have been for other stocks.

With respect to the critical situation faced by shrimp harvesters, I think that even a substantial increase in their share of the redfish fishery could not easily compensate for the disappearance of shrimp. Over the 2000-2020 period, shrimp harvesters landed an annual average of around 25,000 tonnes of shrimp. However, the value per unit weight of shrimp is far greater than that of redfish. For example, in 2021, harvesters received $1.75 per pound for shrimp compared with just $0.50 per pound for redfish. This factor of 3.5 implies that a lucrative situation would require annual landings of 87,500 tonnes of redfish. Such landings are probably not viable in the short term, because of the lack of markets for the resource, or sustainable in the long term, given the high natural mortality that is causing a rapid decline in the redfish stock.

Rapid changes in the waters of the Gulf of St. Lawrence, including rising temperatures and falling oxygen levels, will certainly lead to other difficult situations. The Greenland halibut stock can be expected to keep decreasing rapidly or collapse in the short term, and some snow crab stocks will likely follow this trend in the medium term, as the system continues to warm. The current shrimp fishery crisis could quickly spread to other fisheries, a situation that could further damage the economies of coastal communities in five provinces.

For these reasons, I recommend that the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans extend the scope of the present study beyond redfish quota allocations to identify a range of solutions to, first, support shrimp harvesters in the short term and, second, increase the resilience of the fisheries sector in the longer term by establishing strategies to prevent the future crises emerging in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you. That was a few seconds under five minutes, so that's perfect.

Now we'll go to Mr. Claudio Bernatchez for five minutes or less, please.

[Claudio Bernatchez, Director General, Coopérative des Capitaines Propriétaires de la Gaspésie]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For the purposes of this exercise, I will refer to the documentation available from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, or DFO.

I'll start by reminding the committee that in 2019, amendments were made to the Fisheries Act to provide a framework for the conservation and protection of fish and fish habitats. This was done in three ways: ensuring the protection of fish and fish habitats and integrating the tools needed to do so; providing certainty to industry, stakeholders and indigenous groups; and fostering the long-term sustainability of aquatic resources. I will come back to that a little later.

Following the survey conducted in 2015, Science Advisory Report 2016/047 on redfish stated the following:

The arrival of large Redfish cohorts will most likely have a significant impact on the ecosystem in the area, especially due to increased predation on small invertebrates and fish.

That same year, Science Advisory Report 2016/012 on shrimp mentioned a sharp increase in redfish bycatch in the shrimp fishery. Two years later, Science Advisory Report 2018/032 on redfish stated the following:

The massive increase in Redfish has important repercussions for the ecosystem. Increasing predation among other things is contributing to the Northen Shrimp decline in the Estuary and Gulf of St. Lawrence.

Alarm bells were ringing so loudly, they could even be heard by the deaf.

After two more years of government inaction, Scientific Advisory Report 2020/019 revealed the following:

In the research survey in 2019, Redfish accounted for 90% of the total captured biomass as compared to 15% between 1995 and 2012. This relative biomass of Redfish is unprecedented and could have important ecological impacts on other species.

However, we hear nothing but radio silence from the Government of Canada.

What more can we say at this point? How can we sound the alarm on the impact of redfish on shrimp and other species?

Our valiant scientists raised the issue again in Research Document 2023/036:

Northern Shrimp consumption roughly quintupled between 2017 and 2021…reflecting the long‑term growth of the 2011‑2013 [redfish cohorts].

Meanwhile, these same scientists estimated that shrimp consumption by redfish totalled 213,000 tonnes in 2021, or 38 times the catch recorded by shrimpers in 2023, which was 5,500 tonnes.

For more than a decade, the industry, together with DFO scientists and managers, has taken a precautionary approach that was intended to ensure sustainable fishing of northern shrimp. Despite that, shrimpers in the St. Lawrence have practically nothing left to fish. Ironically, we learned last month that unit 1 redfish stocks were themselves at risk in the medium term, even before the commercial fishery was opened.

Since 2016, how has the Government of Canada discharged its responsibilities to ensure the protection of shrimp and other species, such as turbot, which is equally affected?

What measures have been put in place to promote the sustainability of these species?

How can the government claim that its January 26 redfish quota announcement provides a modicum of predictability for independent fishers and coastal communities in the St. Lawrence?

A number of industry stakeholders are ready to co‑operate on developing and integrating an ecosystem approach, one that supports integrated fisheries management in Canada, in a non-partisan way, for the benefit of fisheries resources and coastal communities.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Mr. Bernatchez.

We'll now go to Mr. Jason Spingle for five minutes or less, please.

[Jason Spingle, Secretary-Treasurer, Fish, Food and Allied Workers Union]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the committee for taking the time to hear from the Fish, Food and Allied Workers Union today.

Our union represents over 14,000 working people in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, the vast majority of whom are employed in the seasonal fishing industry.

I'm here today on behalf of the 4R Gulf of St. Lawrence shrimp and otter trawl fleet based on the west coast ands the northern peninsula of our province.

The majority of this fleet of owner-operators live at least three to four hours from the next major centre. They live in a rural, culturally important way of living that is based around the inshore fishery. This fishery of northern shrimp for the past couple of decades and longer has provided a modest and sustainable standard of living to the region; however, climate change and changing water temperatures have resulted in an ecosystem shift. The northern shrimp resource has declined drastically in recent years, while redfish populations have grown substantially, and redfish have become a major predator of the shrimp.

These harvesters have no other fisheries in which to diversify their businesses and have to put considerable effort into preparing for a return to redfish as a just transition. Without redfish, this fleet has no future. Many are facing bankruptcy if they are not given a viable path forward. The path was available and then wasted with Minister Lebouthillier's January 26 decision.

Allocating the entire coastal-based fleet less than 25% of Unit 1 redfish is a far cry from the at least 50% needed to ensure financial solvency and economic sustainability for the region. Nearly 60% of the share will go to the corporate-owned offshore fleet, a small group of factory freezer draggers that will not land or process product in Canada, rather than the 30 or so in our province and others, as you have heard here, in Quebec, New Brunswick and throughout Unit 1, independent owner-operators who support the sustainability of resource-dependent coastal communities.

The allocation key announced for the emerging commercial Unit 1 redfish fishery reflects that of the historical redfish fishery of the 1970s and 1980s and is not comparable to the present day. Today the offshore sector is fundamentally different, with vessels now designed to replace onshore processing with factory freezer equipment to process seafood at sea. This was not the case in the 1970s and 1980s.

It is important to emphasize that the landings of the offshore fleet are not subject to minimum processing requirements. They concentrate profits with other corporations and not workers, and the offshore is already the largest quota holder for fisheries in Canada.

In contrast, every vessel in the inshore fleet is a small business on the water that is operating under the federal owner-operator requirements as well as under provincial legislation that requires that all landings must undergo primary processing at an onshore facility within the province. A majority allocation to the offshore fleet not only denies inshore harvesters of opportunities but also denies hundreds of onshore plant workers meaningful work and adjacent communities of crucial tax revenues, severing the community's connection to the resource almost entirely.

Our union believes that the minister has very clearly failed in her responsibility under the federal Fisheries Act by not prioritizing social, economic and cultural factors as well as the preservation and promotion of the independence of independent licence holders.

As cited in 1977 by the Honourable Roméo LeBlanc, a man who is known as the greatest minister of fisheries in our history and for our organization and members and was then the Liberal minister of fisheries and oceans, in a speech explaining his decision to ban offshore vessels from outside the gulf from being allowed to fish inside the gulf, said, and I quote:

Who gets first crack at these fish? Here I must say that I have a clear bias for the inshore fisherman. Not because of some romantic regard, not because of his picture on the calendars, but because he cannot travel far after fish, because he depends on fishing for his income, because his community in turn depends on fisheries being protected.

DFO has been outspoken in their commitment to ensuring sustainably managed fisheries; however, no such work has been undertaken by the offshore to establish viable harvesting methods that do not impact other valuable fisheries and habitat in the gulf.

Over the last decade, inshore harvester organizations in the Gulf of St. Lawrence have contributed hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of work towards developing a sustainable redfish fishery for the inshore fleet. Our union has worked with harvesters via funding through the Atlantic fisheries fund to develop sustainable gear modifications and practices to nearly eliminate Atlantic halibut bycatch to demonstrate ocean stewardship.

In conclusion, without an alternative fishery, any reduction in access to northern shrimp has a direct and detrimental effect to communities on the west coast and northwest coast of our province. The 4R Gulf of St. Lawrence shrimp otter trawl fleet has the capacity—along with our colleagues, whom you've heard from here—to land the entire redfish quota, and the innovation from the experimental fishery to do so skilfully.

To summarize, we believe that a reversal of this decision is warranted to ensure fish stocks are managed to the benefit of those who live adjacent to the resource for the betterment of Canadian communities and Canadian workers.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Mr. Spingle. It was a little bit over time, but I think that's okay.

We'll move on to our first round of questions now. Mr. Small will be starting off, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for taking part in our study here.

My first question, Mr. Chair, is to Mr. Spingle.

Mr. Spingle, you know I was an independent inshore fisherman myself. I was an owner-operator, like a lot of the folks you represent. Can you paint a picture of what's going on right now in the 4R fleet that you represent?

[Jason Spingle]

Yes. Thank you for your question, MP Small.

I mentioned that this fleet was the basis for the fishery on the northern peninsula for many years now, and it provided most, or a good portion, of the processing work.

As you probably know, but I will just highlight, the shrimp stocks have been declining precipitously. To quote our chairperson, Mr. Rendell Genge, who was one of the first harvesters to ever fish shrimp in the gulf in the late 1960s, even though we saw a decline in the past 18 months, no one could have ever figured that the drop would have been so quick and so fast.

People have been borrowing against their savings. They've been borrowing from the financial institutions. Some of them made investments a few years ago to try to stay in and secure a future when DFO implemented the idea of combining enterprises.

I've had conversations with basically each and every one of these individuals as a group, as well as individuals. Many people will not make it through 2024 without some help. Some might not make it anyway. It's a very bleak situation. For a proud group of harvesters—as you said, people who supported their communities and the region for so long—it is difficult to see that, particularly since I've worked with them for 20 years of my career.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Would you say that the rise in the redfish stock has decimated their livelihood from shrimp? Is that a fair statement?

[Jason Spingle]

There's definitely a very strong correlation.

The redfish are staying further to the north. We know temperature is a factor. I've been to most of the assessments, up until the last one. We know that there's particularly juvenile shrimp in the bellies of these redfish. They're just getting at the size now where they're going to consume shrimp even at a higher rate.

There's another telling factor with the surveys. Basically, the estuary is the smallest area in the gulf. I'm sure everyone here is familiar with it. If you look at the overlap of redfish and shrimp from that survey, basically the only place where the shrimp are holding their own is in the estuary. That's the only place in the deep waters of the gulf where there are no redfish. For whatever reason, the redfish don't want to inhabit there. That's from DFO's own work.

That's a very telling picture to me. It's hard to argue with that correlation. There's no doubt about it. I don't think there's a doubt in anyone's mind that redfish predation is the single biggest factor in the decimation of the shrimp resources.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Is it fair to say that redfish are putting shrimp harvesters out of business right now?

[Jason Spingle]

I think it's a very fair statement to say that this the biggest contributing factor, yes.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

The current government, with its six consecutive fisheries ministers, has had a lot of time. They've known that redfish have been proliferating for the last eight years. Are you satisfied with what the government has done in preparation for what we see today, in the bloom of the redfish fishery, to help prepare harvesters and processors to be ready? In terms of what they've done to add landed value to that product, have they done everything they could?

[Jason Spingle]

No. They put out the Atlantic fisheries fund, which was certainly a help, but there was no work led by DFO. The work on bycatch, on species split, is a complicated issue, but there are two species there. One is much less abundant than the other, so you need a plan for that. We have Atlantic halibut, which you heard has exploded. That's so important. It's a big part for a lot of fixed gear harvesters in the Gulf of St. Lawrence and for their livelihoods.

We've done a lot of work, but we led that work. When I say “we”, I mean harvesters, the FFAW. We work with the processors, and I know some of my colleagues on the line here in New Brunswick and in Quebec have worked on the same issues as well. We worked with Dominique Robert to learn a lot about it. It's good to see Dominique here. He's a colleague who turned into a friend, and I appreciate seeing him. We've done groundbreaking work on Atlantic halibut to find out where they spawn in the wintertime and where they inhabit.

The bottom line is that no, DFO did not do the work, MP Small, and there could have been more support given for us to do more work. There's still more work that needs to be done here. This will be a transition.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Mr. Small. That's your six minutes. We will move on to Mr. Cormier once again.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Bernatchez, thank you for being here. I think you probably heard the comments of Mr. Lanteigne and Mr. Element, who appeared just before you.

How many tonnes of redfish, across all provinces, would these shrimper fleets need to overcome the crisis?

[Claudio Bernatchez]

I don't think anyone can give you that figure today. What we're looking for right now is ways to overcome the current crisis. You know as well as I do that redfish will not help solve the problems of 2024.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I asked you this question because we are hearing a number of figures from both sides. I think you said you were expecting more since the minister's decision. However, you also just said that, even if the fishery opens this year, it won't be a gold mine, and that everyone knows it: Fishermen are still going to have a hard time of it.

Earlier, I put the following questions to your other colleagues. What do you want as a transition plan? What do you need? Do you need a licence buyback, loan guarantees and so on? Have you informed Minister Lebouthillier or her officials of what you need? What are the estimates of these costs? Have you done all this work?