Fisheries Committee on March 19th, 2024

[Zachary Townsend, Fisherman, Shelburne Elver Cooperative]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am really honoured to testify today as one of almost 1,100 elver harvesters who have been impacted by the decision of the minister to surrender the fishery to unlicensed, illegal harvesters. My sole purpose today is to provide a human face to the frustrations and panic among the 1,100 Maritimers who have suddenly found themselves without employment due to DFO mismanagement of the elver fishery.

For the last 10 years, I have managed the eel holding facility for Shelburne Elver Limited. My grandfather was an elver fisher. My father is an elver fisher, and my brother is an elver fisher. This fishery is my family's livelihood.

As Genna said, there seems to be a perception in Ottawa that the eight enterprise elver licence holders are the only folks who can earn a living in this industry. I am here to tell you that this simply isn't true. My employer, Shelburne Elver, is a co-operative of 17 original shareholders who surrendered their adult eel licences over 25 years ago to remove fishing effort at the adult stage. This ensures that, in the entire area where my employer fishes, there is no overlapping adult eel fishery.

When the minister doesn't cancel the fishery, Shelburne Elver employs up to 50 people. This injects money into rural communities in an economically depressed area.

Committee members must fully understand the tremendous human cost of Minister Lebouthillier's decision.

I lost my partner to cancer a few months ago. It's been hard—unbearable at times—but to now be unemployed and facing an uncertain financial future is simply a challenge I didn't need. I don't share such sad news to evoke your pity, but instead to remind you that each of us 1,100 Maritimers has a story and a unique set of circumstances now made worse by the minister. Then, to read her tweets from Boston this past week, talking excitedly about how she's protecting Canadian fishing jobs, was just too much for me. To tweet that, just hours before 1,100 of us found out that we no longer had jobs, was just so hurtful. Her lack of awareness and empathy cuts deep, and I wanted you all to see that today.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

We'll now go to questions from the members, beginning with Mr. Perkins for six minutes or less.

Go ahead, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses. Thank you, in particular, Zachary, for sharing your story and representing 1,100 families that have been thrown out of work for abiding by the law.

How does it feel for you to see people who are breaking the law, who are currently already on the rivers, while you have no way to make a living?

[Zachary Townsend]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To put it frankly, it makes my blood boil. I know that a lot of my colleagues, my brother and all the people I work with are very confused about how this is happening year after year.

That's really all I have to say. It makes my blood boil.

Thank you.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

Ms. Carey, you mentioned that this has been going on for a decade. Liberal fisheries minister number four, in 2020, shut down the elver fishery, as Liberal fisheries minister number six has just done.

Did that reduce the poaching and illegal activity?

[Genna Carey]

It did not.

Each time a shutdown has happened, legal fishers have been removed from the rivers. Unlicensed and unregulated fishing has continued for months afterwards.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Have you been proposing solutions, such as traceability? I've read in some of your letters and submissions that you've even offered to pay for it, so that taxpayers don't have to pay for it, and to help the previous witness from CBSA, as well as RCMP and others, understand which are legal and which are not.

What has the department's reaction been over the years on that?

[Genna Carey]

Certainly, we've been asking for a traceability system in this industry for well over 10 years. Each year we've been told, “Well, next year we'll get that sorted out.” This past year, it became obvious that nothing would be coming in the next year unless we took matters into our own hands, so I personally sourced two companies that were available and ready to implement a traceability system for this season.

As you said, the industry was willing to pay and comply with this, but when we brought it to DFO, we were told that we could do it for ourselves but it really couldn't be used because it goes against procurement procedures. We would, again, just have to continue to wait for something that we've been holding our breath on for years.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Ms. Carey or Mr. King, Maine has that system. How long did it take them to put it in place?

[Stanley King, Spokesperson, Canadian Committee for a Sustainable Eel Fishery Inc.]

Thanks for the question.

You won't hear this from DFO. DFO likes to make out that creating a traceability system would be a long, drawn-out process. I've heard five, six or seven years from the minister's department.

Maine did it in less than a year. They requested it in 2012, and by 2013 it was in place. Now, maybe there have been other interactions that have been slightly improved over the years, but this is not rocket science. It can be implemented rather quickly. There is just an unwillingness to do so.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

DFO has had more than a decade to copy a successful system and has refused to do so.

[Stanley King]

The only thing I can say about that is that some people like to learn from their own mistakes; they don't like to learn from the mistakes of others. Canada would like to learn from its own mistakes.

You're right that we had a traceability system right in front of us. The same company would do it for us at a pretty reasonable rate.

What's more frustrating is that, since 2020, we've written 35 times to the department, from the minister all the way down to this committee, all the way down to our local regional director and our middle managers. We've written 35 times since 2020 to ask for a traceability system, and obviously they are just unwilling.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Mr. King, last year we really had exponential growth in the crime, and it's transboundary crime. It's money from Asia. It's criminal organizations from the U.S. and across Canada that are now operating freely and lawlessly on our rivers in the Maritimes. I believe you were actually emailing the minister and the director general in Nova Scotia daily with videos and pictures and identification of what was going on, river by river, because the legal licence-holders have motion-activated cameras on the rivers.

All through that, and even when the minister closed the fishery after 18 days, you were still persisting, because I think poaching went on into July. Did you ever get a response from C and P, director general Doug Wenzel, the minister's office or any police organization on that information?

[Stanley King]

We were upset that the season closed after 18 days and there was no effort to curb poaching. For the first 31 days after the closure, when nobody should have been on the river, I emailed 30 times over 31 days to report poaching every night on six rivers concurrently. I received no emails back.

I think this email chain had about 20 people on it. It was going to a lot of C and P local, a lot of C and P national and the minister's office. Nobody got back to me. Nobody came to the river to do anything about the poaching.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Your cameras never picked up any DFO, RCMP or any other law enforcement officers trying to pursue it and see what was going on in the rivers, in the day or at night.

[Stanley King]

We caught them in the day one time. It was the day of the closure. They went and put signs on the trees. That was the only time we saw them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins.

We'll go to Mr. Cormier for six minutes or less, please.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With regard to all the email communication, would you be able to table that for the committee, please?

[Stanley King]

I would be very happy to table it for the committee. I've tabled it for many politicians already. I usually just give the last one, because I always number them and so forth: This is the 30th report in 31 days.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

Ms. Carey, you said that the minister got bad advice during the last decision, and maybe some previous ministers did also. You were in contact with DFO officials on a regular basis regarding the situation that was going on last year, but also previous years. Is that right?

[Genna Carey]

That's correct.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Do you think there's still time to open a season for commercial licence-holders, a season that will be safe for everyone on those rivers?

[Genna Carey]

I do think there's still time to open this season. We know that this problem won't be solved overnight. We know that there must be multiple incremental steps taken to get to the finish line, where we need to be.

As far as safety on the river is concerned, I can tell you that any incidents requiring police assistance or reports of altercations were not between licensed and unlicensed fishers. They were mostly between unlicensed fishers. In my opinion, in terms of my safety on the river, although there are a lot of people there, when I phone the RCMP for assistance and they tell me they don't respond to elver calls, I certainly don't feel safe.

I don't think it will be any worse than previous years, let me say that. To cost that many folks their job, I certainly think it's well worth considering how to get that job done.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You probably listened to the testimony of other witnesses earlier. The one from CBSA talked about the traceability program or tool that you proposed to DFO. What did you think of their answer? Was there anything that made you think that they weren't on the right track or that they don't want to do anything?

[Genna Carey]

Well, I certainly don't disagree with CBSA's answer that regulations will make it easier for them to do their job.

I will point out that those regulations are currently not in place, and not having legal fishers on the river doesn't change that. They still have to find a way to do their job in the next few months, because eels will move through their airport without this fishery happening. I think those regulations are important. They do need to happen. There's no question there.

The question is, do you need to put everybody out of work while we wait—and, while we wait, how long will that actually take?