Fisheries Committee on May 9th, 2024

[Annette Gibbons]

Just in general, I would say that all departments that have science in their mandate follow the science integrity policy of the government—DFO has its own—to make sure that scientists are free to carry out and speak about their work, and that there isn't interference in that process.

In terms of changes that were made, certainly at DFO, it's not lost on me at all that there is criticism of science and DFO in different areas. There's criticism on the aquaculture side. There's also criticism of fish stock decisions, and there are changes that are being made to DFO science—

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Ms. Gibbons, with respect.... Thank you very much. Perhaps you could send the remainder of your response in writing. I hate to cut you off, but my time is limited.

My next question, Minister, is on the increase in derelict and abandoned vessels that we're seeing along all coasts of Canada, east and west. The west is being particularly hard hit with the large number of derelict vessels that are being left to sink and pollute our waters.

Not only is this an issue, and something that's coming up in a study coming forward, but it's been brought to my attention that there have been derelict vessels imported from the United States and brought into biologically sensitive ecosystems to be broken down. Of course, as you can imagine, there are many toxins and hazardous materials that are seeping into the ocean. In particular, the one that I'm referring to is in Baynes Sound.

Why are we importing hazardous derelict vessels from the U.S., when we can't even clean up the ones that we have here in Canada?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

You're absolutely right. Abandoned vessels are a major problem. We're making progress, but we have to keep working very hard to hold vessel owners, including small craft owners, accountable. They have a responsibility. They can't just abandon their boats wherever they please and expect the government to look after them.

I think Mr. Pelletier can give you more information about that.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Minister, I so appreciate your input and the very important input from Mr. Pelletier, but we know that the accountability mechanisms are not in place.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again thank you, Minister.

I just want to comment on Mr. Kelloway's comment about voting for this budget. There are a number of reasons we do not support the budget, but when 29% of the funding for small craft harbours is going to the fisheries minister's riding, it's pretty hard to support that when we're here to represent all Canadians.

Minister, I'd like to follow up on your government's failure to deliver effective diplomacy for Canadian fish harvesters. Many reports written by this committee have told your government that Canadian fish and seafood need a strong advocate to engage with the U.S. government on issues such as Pacific salmon of B.C. and Yukon origin, the North Atlantic right whales, pinnipeds, the Great Lakes Fishery Commission, transboundary mackerel, illegal trade of lobster and elvers, and the list goes on and on. These are issues that directly impact Canadians and that require diplomacy with our largest trading partner.

Your response to this committee's pinniped report mentioned only complying with American regulations. Canada needs a government that will stand up for Canadians. If my office requests, on your behalf, a meeting with Gina Raimondo, the Secretary of Commerce responsible for the federal fisheries agency at NOAA, will you make yourself available to meet with her to discuss American policies that are hurting Canadian harvesters?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

The first thing I want to tell you is that Quebec's fishing industry is very present in my riding, which has the most harbours and the most fishing. My riding accounts for 33% of Quebec's entire fishery. Investments in small craft harbours are important, and I have no problem with that.

The second thing I would point out is that I spent nine days in the United States recently. I went to Maine, Boston, and Washington. I can tell you that we talked about fishing and conservation. I also talked about seals with everyone I met. As I have said and continue to say publicly, we have a problem with the seal hunt, or seal fishery, depending on the province and depending on whether seals are classified as fish or meat.

This is going to be important. We're working on this with provincial fisheries ministers.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Did you get any concessions from your U.S. counterpart on the U.S. positions that are hurting Canadian harvesters? Can you name any concessions you got from our U.S. counterparts?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I can tell you that the work has begun. Departmental officials are working hard and building the relationship. There's work going on internationally as well—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I'm not asking about your department; I'm asking about your work.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

—with Japan and with other countries.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I have to pass my time now to Mr. Perkins.

Thank you.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

I guess that's a no to Mr. Arnold's question.

I have two quick questions. First, this committee passed a resolution asking if you would open the elver season this year before it's too late. Will you—yes or no?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

The answer is no for this year.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

Because you've chosen to close it, not for conservation reasons but because of the department's inability to enforce the law, will you compensate the legal licence-holders for the living that you took away from them, the 1,100 harvesters that you've thrown out of work, not for conservation but because you couldn't do your job?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I was just in Portland, Maine, to meet with people in the fisheries sector and learn from their expertise, to find out what had to be done to protect the resource—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm sorry, Minister, but I have little time. I wasn't talking about the United States. I was talking about the 1,100 harvesters in Canada you put out of work. Yes or no, will you compensate them for putting them out of work?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

It's very bad for the interpreters when two people are talking at the same time.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Will you compensate them—yes or no?

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

We closed that fishery for conservation and product traceability reasons, and I think the numbers I gave you earlier show that it was the right decision.

My priority is working to ensure we have an elver fishery in 2025—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I take it that's a no.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

—for traceability and protection.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You don't care about the 1,100 families. You won't compensate them for the work that you put them out of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Mr. Perkins, your time is up.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for five minutes, please.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to continue on with elvers as an issue.

Minister, you closed the fishery, which means that anybody who's out fishing elvers is doing it illegally. The enforcement piece should be—pardon the pun—like shooting fish in a barrel.

In our studies, including the IUU study that we're just wrapping up now and the look that we did at elvers, I had a lot of concerns, as did others, about the actual safety of people—the people in the community, even the enforcement officers who had to live in the community and perhaps deal with some pretty rough elements who stood to make a lot of money through the illegal trade of elvers.

Can you talk a little bit more about the steps that were taken to provide the enforcement to see if it's possible to shut this fishery down, the illegal one?