Evidence of meeting #12 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Timothy Sargent  Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Mario Pelletier  Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Shawn Hoag  Director General, Commercial Program, Canada Border Services Agency
Doug Forsyth  Director General, Market Access, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Carmen G. Sotelo  Researcher, Spanish National Research Council, As an Individual

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Good morning, everyone. I now call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 12 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) the committee is studying the subject matter of supplementary estimates (C) 2021-22, votes 1c, 5c and 10c, under the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. The committee will also resume its study of the traceability of fish and seafood products in its second panel today.

This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021.

Interpretation services are available for this meeting. Please inform me immediately if interpretation is lost and we will ensure it is restored before resuming. The “raise hand” feature at the bottom of the screen can be used at any time if you wish to speak or to alert the chair. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking and speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute. All comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. I will remind all participants that screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted.

Our guests for the first hour will be the Honourable Joyce Murray, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, and her officials. I'm not going to introduce all of her officials. We can see their names, and if anybody has questions—

Yes, Madame Desbiens?

11:05 a.m.

Bloc

Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but although I am very familiar with the rules mentioned at the beginning of the committee's meeting, I just want to let you know that I am not hearing the interpretation.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Okay.

Is it corrected now with the interpretation?

Madame Desbiens, are you still not hearing me in French?

11:05 a.m.

Bloc

Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

I am not hearing the interpretation, even though I chose the interpretation channel in French. I don't understand what is happening.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

It's translating the French, but not translating the English to French.

Can we ask our interpreters to check on that before we start the actual committee?

Someone has their hand up down at the back—

11:05 a.m.

Bloc

Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

I am being told that my assistant has no access to the interpretation in French, either. So at least two of us are having this issue.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Okay, but if I say something now in English, as I'm doing, is it being translated into French?

It's working here in the room. The translation is taking place for members in the room.

Madame Desbiens, are you hearing it on your end?

11:05 a.m.

Bloc

Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

No.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB

I can't hear it either, Mr. Chair.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Me neither.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

We'll get that checked. We'll pause for a moment to see what's going on.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Just to let everyone know, the technicians are working to get this resolved. We'll resume as soon as we get the go-ahead from them.

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

Yes, it is working, thank you very much. This is great.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

By that super comment, I take it you're getting the proper translation. I see thumbs-up, so we have that resolved. We are back.

One thing I want to bring up before we get into the actual presentation today is that we did have a Liaison Committee meeting yesterday, and I want to remind everyone that we had a presentation from interpretation services. They're having a lot of problems doing their job, and the effect on them is very impressive—or not impressive. It shouldn't be happening. People are not wearing the proper equipment.

Whether you are on Zoom or not, it is recommended that you wear the House-issued headphones. If that is not the case, going forward you will not be able to take part in a meeting. You'll be able to listen, but you will not be able to speak whatsoever, because we have to enforce that for the health and safety of the people providing interpretation services.

We'll continue now with today's meeting.

As we all know, we have Minister Joyce Murray and her staff here this morning.

The floor is yours, Minister, for your opening remarks.

11:10 a.m.

Vancouver Quadra B.C.

Liberal

Joyce Murray LiberalMinister of Fisheries

Thank you, Chair. I'm happy to be here again.

It is a pleasure to be joining you today here on the traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe peoples, alongside senior officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard.

They are Tim Sargent, deputy minister; Mario Pelletier, Coast Guard commissioner; and their senior teams.

I'll start by providing a brief overview of my department's 2021-22 supplementary estimates (C) before speaking about some of the high-level items in more detail. Following my remarks, I'll be happy to answer, of course, any questions you have about these proposed expenditures.

Through this supplementary estimates (C) exercise, I'm seeking $243.2 million. These funds will be used for three key initiatives: first, $148.4 million for the small craft harbours program; second, $36.8 million for the Pacific salmon strategy initiative; and third, $31.3 million to offset costs associated with the Bligh Island marine pollution incident.

Mr. Chair, last week I attended Seafood Expo North America, which may be referred to as the “Boston seafood show”. I met stakeholders, discussed our growing blue economy, and promoted Canada's world-class fish and seafood sectors. The fish and seafood sector is critical to our country's economy, and is by and large in excellent shape thanks to the stewardship of harvesters and industry.

In 2021 Canada exported $8.7 billion worth of fish and seafood to 119 countries. In 2020 the commercial fishing, aquaculture and processing sectors employed over 68,000 people. That's very significant.

Harvesters depend on small craft harbours. In fact, 90% of Canada's fish and seafood moves through DFO's national network of small craft harbours.

Keeping almost 1,000 commercial harbours safe, accessible and in good repair requires considerable time, effort and money. The funding I am requesting today will speed up repair and maintenance of Fisheries and Oceans Canada's core small craft harbours in communities across the country. It will also be used to divest non-core harbours and close inactive harbours that are unsafe but can't be divested

Mr. Chair, as I mentioned during my last appearance, our government is making a generational investment to stabilize and restore Pacific salmon and salmon habitat for the communities, the people and the ecosystems that depend on their sustainability. The funding I'm requesting today will go towards the Pacific salmon strategy initiative, which uses a collaborative approach to address Pacific salmon declines and ensure that federal investments are focused on the areas of the greatest importance.

Some of the areas we're targeting are the implementation of key activities across all four of the PSSI pillars. These activities include creating a habitat restoration centre of expertise, climate science and ecosystem planning; an enhanced fisheries monitoring process; and a commercial licence retirement support program for harvesters, as well as the allocation of capital funding to build and retrofit both DFO and community hatcheries.

The department's continuing work will ensure that new and ongoing investments in Pacific salmon are appropriately aligned in response to these unfortunate and historic declines, along with the development of conservation approaches and plans to support the recovery of prioritized salmon populations. With this funding, we will provide sustainable harvest opportunities for the indigenous, commercial and recreational sectors through effective stewardship and integrated ecosystem planning.

Mr. Chair, between December 2020 and July 2021, the Canadian Coast Guard led a unified response to a petroleum leak stemming from a historic shipwreck near Bligh Island in British Columbia. By the time this environmental response had concluded, 60 tonnes of pollutants were removed from the ship and surrounding waters at a cost of $31.3 million.

Our government funded this environmental response operation given the urgency of the situation and because the shipwreck occurred in 1968, which exceeds the time limitation to claim response expenses against the vessel owner under Canada's Marine Liability Act.

My department is well positioned to deliver on our government's priorities.

The funding I am seeking today will allow Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard to continue carrying out their important work on behalf of the people we serve.

I am happy to answer any questions related to this work, with the help of the officials who are joining me.

Thank you.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you for that, Minister.

I don't know if either one of the staff has an opening statement. I didn't ask at the beginning. I apologize if they do.

We'll go right to rounds of questioning.

To start off, of course, we'll go to Mr. Perkins for six minutes or less, please.

March 24th, 2022 / 11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for coming.

I'd like to follow up on my question to you in the House yesterday about the the expropriation of the crab and elver quota that you recently announced. It's important, obviously. I appreciate that reconciliation occurs and that fisheries play an important part in it. You mentioned that the department was working with industry to find solutions. Those two industries have told me that the DFO approach has been to tell them what was going to happen, not actually to consult.

On January 5, you wrote to me regarding entrance to the elver fishery. I quote from that letter, which said, "Access to the elver fishery can currently be obtained through a private arrangement". You rejected the idea of opening up new licences for the elver fishery.

Again, on February 24, in response to another letter to me dealing with the elver reallocation of the 14% or more shift of the quota, the department wrote that “this reallocation would occur without the provision of any financial assistance to licence holders.”

Expropriation of quota now has all fishers of all species worried, and their investors worried, that you are going to continue to take this arbitrary approach to reallocating quota. Hundreds of millions of dollars of debt and businesses are at stake.

I'd like to know why you, as minister, have abandoned—which your letters confirm to me—the long-held policy as established under the Marshall response that the approach of the department is that indigenous acquisition of quota and effort will be done through a willing buyer/willing seller process only.

Why have you abandoned that?

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Thank you for that question, Mr. Perkins, because it gives me a chance to confirm that no decisions have been made and implemented on either the Area E crab fishery or the elver fishery at this point. We are in discussion with both the indigenous communities and the fish harvester communities on these matters.

The reality is that first nations have a treaty-affirmed right to fish for a moderate livelihood on the east coast. DFO is working on a nation-to-nation basis to further implement that right. In Area E, a court ruling granted the Nuu-chah-nulth communities additional rights over the crab fishery. We are working to implement that as well.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

I appreciate that, but the court didn't say to remove 50% of the existing quota and transfer it to other fishers. That was your decision. You have communicated that directly to those fishers, both in letter and in meeting.

I going to ask you a question on another issue.

We have an obligation to pay our dues to the Great Lakes Fishery Commission. That money pays to help control invasive species, as you know. Through five Ministers of Fisheries in six years under this government, not one minister has paid our full dues to that commission.

This year, the Americans expect us to be putting in $19.4 million in funding, but we have only allocated, in your estimates, $10.6 million. That's an $8.8 million shortfall. The U.S. expressed their desire, obviously, for us to pay our full resources to protect from invasive species, but they are now talking about not continuing to pay our share of those.

Will you commit that you will return the government to paying its full obligation?

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Thanks for the question on the Great Lakes Fishery Commission.

I just want to acknowledge the great work they do and their effectiveness with the sea lamprey control activities they've been leading, backed by science—

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

And pay the bills—

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

—over all of these years. I know the commission is advocating for a government change. We are working closely with interested parties to make sure we make the best decision for Canadians—

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Well, the best decision is to pay the bills.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

—and I'm going to make sure that the good work they're doing is not adversely affected during this period.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

The best decision is to pay the bills and to not allow that invasive species to overtake the Great Lakes, and to live up to our obligation.