Evidence of meeting #130 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was habitat.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm sure you'll miss my presence there in the room.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
My questioning, Mr. Chair, is going to be for Mr. Williams.
I heard him speaking to Mr. Cormier about the robust regime that's in place for enforcing owner-operator policy effectiveness. Given that there hasn't been one charge laid since this new Fisheries Act came into effect, can he explain to the committee how effective that is when we haven't had any enforcement of that policy under the act?
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think we should look at the measurement of success with this.
It's very important from our departmental perspective that we have had 3,600 administrative reviews. We have requested, in those cases, 1,600 harvesters to provide us with more information, and then in 220 cases, we identified those who were not exactly compliant, so we worked with them.
Under subsection 19(3) of the regulations, they have 12 months to become compliant. That's our goal. It's not to take harvesters necessarily out of their livelihoods, but rather to ensure they're compliant with that measure in the Fisheries Act.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Thank you.
If police officers hauled over 1,600 people who were thought to be in an infraction on the highway and no one got a fine, how would you explain the effectiveness of the police officers on the highway?
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Unfortunately, as I'm not a police officer, I wouldn't want to speculate on that case. I think that when safety is a concern, they might have different priorities.
In this particular case, the department is working within the legislative and regulatory framework that has been provided to us by Parliament.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
I have a constituent with whom I'm sure you're familiar. As far as I know, clear evidence that the owner-operator policy was breached went as high as the minister's level.
Are you familiar with a fisherman by the name of Jimmy Foss?
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I won't speak to individual harvesters or cases that might be before the department for consideration.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Well, it was before the department this summer for consideration, along with two others. In fact, Mr. Foss's licence was basically taken away. While this was under review and while the quota was supposed to have been frozen, it was just taken away, and the gentleman was basically forced into bankruptcy.
Is it possible that DFO is breaking its own laws? It doesn't appear to me that your owner-operator policy is very effective at all.
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I won't speak to whether or not the department might not be following the laws. I think I can say with some certainty that we are implementing the legislative and regulatory framework as it's been provided.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
If a bank becomes in control of a licence that was formerly in the hands of an owner-operator because of the judgment made inside your department, how can owner-operators feel that the act is protecting them?
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think it's important to recognize that this policy—and as it's reflected in legislation and regulation—is very widely supported by the inshore sector. We know that this is the backbone of the inshore fishery.
I'm not going to speak to specific instances, but overall we do have a robust regime in place that ensures compliance and has helped hundreds to extract themselves from controlling agreements.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
Your department exercised at least one search warrant in this case, and there was an investigation ongoing. Is it not true that while there's an investigation as critical as this one going on, a quota is supposed to be frozen instead of being released?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Small. Your time has gone over.
If the department has an answer to that, you can send it in writing.
We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey for five minutes or less, please.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is about the ability of the department to control illegal and undocumented fishing. It goes to the section on the powers of the fishery officer.
Could you outline to the committee on whether seeing inadequacies in this section of the act could assist the department in getting a better handle on this?
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Indeed, there are provisions within the act, supported through regulation, that are related to enforcement and to ensuring that harvesting is compliant with the laws.
With respect to specific aspects that could be enforced, I'm probably not the person best placed to speak to that matter today.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
That's fine.
Could you explain to the committee why this practice is growing in multiple species, with unreported and undocumented fishing and transactions with cash?
I'll be candid: Your department does not appear to have control of this.
What is missing in the bill and in the regulations that the bill allows you to put in place?
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
You raise an important aspect with respect to unreported sales, often using cash—
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
We're hearing and seeing various newscasts and credible reports of it, and it's growing. From my information on the ground, it's growing dramatically. It's one of the biggest threats to the fishery on the east coast. I'll just reference the east coast.
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think that perhaps there are two points. We do have a lot of tools in place right now with respect to our enforcement officers on the ground and with respect to looking at those sales. It's a lot of accounting and working with our provincial counterparts—
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I do not want you to divulge any investigative aspects, but your tools are either not adequate or not working, because, again, it is a practice that is growing.
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I understand the question, but I'm—
Senior Director, Resource Management - Operations, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
—not sure if I'm best placed to articulate what specific or even general aspects of the act could be—