Fisheries Committee on Dec. 9th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you. That was good. You were right on the five-minute mark.

We'll move to our first round of questioning.

Mr. Arnold, you have six minutes or less.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before you start my time, could I ask the clerk if there's a possibility to get extended resources so we can get a full hour with these witnesses?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You need the permission of the chair to extend as well, and that's hardly going to happen today.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It's not happening. Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Zeman, you mentioned changes in the act. Some were good, but the results were more important than the process. Could you elaborate a little further on that?

[Jesse Zeman]

Sure. Thanks for the question.

This ties into the lack of enforcement. On the mid-Fraser, we reached out to DFO. We got a message response back on why there was no enforcement. There are parallels around the world of whirling disease and invasive mussels. We have laws that say you can't transport whirling disease or aquatic invasives, but we know there's no protection around our borders to keep them out.

A number of committee members probably don't know what whirling disease is. To make a very long story short, it's a parasite that affects salmonids. It can get into their spinal column. They essentially get a kink in their tail or in their body and they swim around in circles until they die. B.C. just reported three positives on Friday in Kootenay Lake.

The point is that we can have all the laws we think will change the outcome and take care of fish, but if we have no enforcement of those laws, the laws don't mean anything. B.C. is one of the few places left in Canada that currently does not have quagga and zebra mussels. Until last year, we didn't have whirling disease. Quite frankly, DFO, on both fronts, has been nowhere to be found.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Are you saying that in enforcement, the inspection of watercraft or water-borne vessels, tools or implements is lacking and putting B.C. waters are risk?

[Jesse Zeman]

Yes. From our perspective, no watercraft should enter B.C. without being inspected and decontaminated and possibly quarantined. DFO did provide $400,000 a year to the invasive mussel defence program until 2023. This year there was no money provided federally. The BCWF partnered with the Pacific Salmon Foundation and the Habitat Conservation Trust Foundation to try to provide some bare minimum funding. I believe DFO did buy a couple of trailers.

From our perspective, again, we have federal regulations that prohibit the transportation of invasives, but if there's no money and there's no enforcement of laws, B.C. will end up with mussels. We now have whirling disease in two places.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

We're doing a review of the changes to the Fisheries Act in 2019. Are there tools in place within that act to implement enforcement and inspection and so on, or are changes needed in the act?

[Jesse Zeman]

For enforcement, there are regulations on aquatic invasive species under the Fisheries Act, so I would say, yes, the legislative and regulatory tools are there. What's missing is funding and capacity to actually make sure those things don't happen.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Go ahead, Ms. Barron.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I'm so sorry to interrupt our valued witnesses. It is for that reason that I am calling a point of order.

The time with our witnesses is so important. We have many questions we want to ask them. For that reason, I want to challenge the chair's decision not to request that the clerk seek additional resources for us to have the full hour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

The clerk is checking to see if there is extra time available. That's not saying that it will go ahead.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I understand that. The information that I just heard you say was that you were not going to be looking into additional resources.

I'm happy to hear that the clerk is checking.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

Continue on, Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Strobel, it's good to see you here again. The committee did a study on owner-operator and vessel licensing on the west coast in 2019. We revisited that again last year. Action had been very slow. Can you say where there could be changes in the act or within the regulations under the act that would move that process along?

[Sonia Strobel]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

This committee has been studying the topic of owner-operator and fleet separation for many years. Reports in 2019 and 2023 were very clear about recommendations for changes that needed to be made. We are still hoping to see those changes. There's very little progress and actual work being done.

There was yet another study. Lindsay Gardner is working very hard, but she is asking questions about whether we should undertake reforms in the Pacific region. She's holding round tables and asking the same questions we've been asking and have been presenting to this committee for six years. Instead, what she should be asking is, how should we modernize west coast fisheries policy?

This time and these taxpayer dollars could be so much better put to use if there was simply a ministerial order that said the decision has been made and we are moving to owner-operator in the Pacific region. We can start the conversation about how.

In the community, we've been asked to present how that could look for different fisheries, but that's like asking us to do homework when it hasn't been decided that it's going to happen. There would be much more creative energy put toward it if that decision was made.

As it relates to the act, section 2.5 talks about the—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Could I ask you to submit that in writing? I have one more question that I want to try to fit in for Mr. Zeman.

[Sonia Strobel]

Absolutely.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Zeman, do you feel that the purposes listed in the Fisheries Act adequately address the conservation of fisheries and fish stocks for commercial and recreational use or should the purposes be modified?

[Jesse Zeman]

That's a challenging question and I don't know if I'll be able to give you a perfect answer to it.

There is definitely a sentiment or concern around public access to things like fish and nature, generally. There are probably improvements to be made, but I wouldn't be able to provide you with specific targets today.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

If you can provide us with anything in writing, we would appreciate that.

I see the chair is preoccupied, so I'm going to carry on.

Ms. Strobel, is there anything you would like to add to that? Are there components in the purpose of the act that are missing or should some be added?

[Sonia Strobel]

Do you mean as they relate specifically to the conservation of fish stocks? Sorry, can you rephrase that question?

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I'm referring to the conservation or sustainability of fisheries.

[Sonia Strobel]

I think the written remarks that I've provided specifically relate to the protection of the socio-economic and cultural factors in fisheries. I have those comments there specifically—