Fisheries Committee on Dec. 9th, 2024

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You can. You allow the privilege debate.

Are you going to shut down the discussion on privilege and my presentation of the evidence?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Did I say that?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Yes, you did.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

No, I didn't.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You did.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You just asked me if I was going to shut down—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Then can I present the rest of my evidence?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

What else do you have to present?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

You won't know unless you let me continue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Well, I'm not fussy about you continuing, to tell you the truth. You've had the floor more than anyone else sitting around this table today.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's only because you don't know how to rule, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Oh, I know how to rule, and you'll find out pretty soon if you keep talking to me.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes, Mr. Kelloway.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I used to umpire baseball, so I'm going to come in and see if we can get—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Don't go calling strikes.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I'm not going to call strikes or anything like that, but I think we need to collect ourselves.

I'm listening to what Mr. Perkins is saying and to what you're saying. My understanding is that you told us you're willing to see written documents based on the verbal items Mr. Perkins has put forward.

I think it's time to move forward. If not, as much as I don't want to see them go, we should let the witnesses go. We need to be respectful of their time and try to find another avenue to have them back. I know things are tight, but I think we have to land the plane on this one right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Go ahead, Ms. Barron.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I have a couple of things to say.

The first thing is that it's frustrating that we're not hearing from our witnesses right now. I agree with that sentiment.

I would also like to express my concern about how my colleague Mr. Perkins is being responded to by the chair. I do not feel that many of the comments being made are appropriate. I also agree the rules clearly state that the member is able to express his concern about a question of privilege. He made it very clear that he is trying to get through it quickly. He is trying to respond to a couple of questions I asked directly on whether other organizations within this group are not included, which I have not yet heard.

I understand the process. I've read the book. I don't need somebody to explain that to me. My question was more about getting information so I'm able to determine how I feel about the situation.

I have some concerns about the way this process is unfolding. Quite frankly, I agree that my colleague Mr. Perkins has not been heard with respect to his final comments. I feel this could have been completely avoided if the process had been done differently. We could have been talking to witnesses at this point.

I'm just expressing frustration. My hope is that we can have fewer comments during this decision-making process that are unhelpful for the situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Perkins, I'll allow the committee to vote on your challenge to the chair.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Okay. Standing Order 116(2)(a) reads:

Unless a time limit has been adopted by the committee or by the House, the Chair of a standing, special or legislative committee may not bring a debate to an end while there are members present who still wish to participate. A decision of the Chair in this regard may not be subject to an appeal to the committee.

You've broken Standing Order 116(2)(a).

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I won't respond to you right now.

I'll ask the clerk to go to the vote, please.

[The Clerk]

This is to challenge the decision of the chair. To vote yes is to sustain the decision, so we would stop debate and go to the witnesses. If you vote no, we will come back to the debate on the motion of privilege.

(Ruling of the chair overturned: nays 6; yeas 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We're going back to the debate.

Mr. Arnold, go ahead.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I provided the points I wanted to say. The chair is to hear from the member raising the question of privilege.