Fisheries Committee on April 5th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less.

Go ahead, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In 2019, a total of 13 indigenous communities across Canada were chosen as host communities for a pilot project to create, test and assess an emergency information and response system.

To your knowledge, Mr. Dorward, was your community one of the 13 pilot host communities?

Did any communities in Quebec take part in the pilot? What were the results of the pilot?

Let's start with the first question. Was your community one of the 13 pilot host communities?

[Terry Dorward]

Not to my knowledge, no.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

In that case, Mr. Temple, you can have the few minutes I have left to say what you weren't able to say earlier.

[Josh Temple]

Thank you, Mrs. Desbiens.

I apologize if I didn't say your name correctly. French is not my first language, but I like to try when I have the opportunity.

Maybe I'll just jump back in.

We've had the privilege of speaking before at this committee.

As a captain and professional mariner, I've garnered a lifetime of global maritime experience related to marine industrial activities. In my role with the Coastal Restoration Society, I've subsequently understood how these marine-related industries impact our shared marine environments.

Showing up with Mr. Dorward and the Tla-o-qui-aht Nation today, our goal here is to try to encourage the committee to hold themselves and our government accountable to continuing to expand this opportunity of collaboration between not only nations, but NGOs and governments across all of Canada's coasts, not just in British Columbia. We have the largest coastline in all the world, as we know. That's something to be incredibly proud of, but it also comes with a lot of weight and responsibility.

We know, from tens of thousands of years of traditional first nations stewardship of these coasts, that a collaborative approach to long-term environmental sustainability is possible. We've thrown a wrench into the works with these large-scale anthropogenic spills. We need to now bring in more of a western perspective to deal with that specific anthropogenic debris and petroleum-based products, and nest that within traditional first nations stewardship, collaborative values and historical approaches.

If we can endeavour to collectively achieve a framework of collaboration that brings first nations more to the forefront of these response, recovery and processing frameworks, we're going to return to a methodology that had been in place for tens of thousands of years. By the way, it was very effective at overall shared environmental stewardship values.

I'm happy to continue to support Terry and the Tla-o-qui-aht nation in this work. As director of the Coastal Restoration Society, I would say that our overall coastal collaboration on both the Pacific and Atlantic coasts with coastal first nations, and the projects that we've successfully implemented throughout the years, are evidence of this framework being highly successful, and something that we can implement on a much broader scale.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll now go on to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to Mr. Dorward and Captain Temple for being here today. It's so great to have you here to share your thoughts around what has occurred with container spills.

Mr. Dorward, I appreciate your speaking to the fact that this is a human problem. It's a really good perspective for us to take, that this is not an issue specific to coastal communities along the west coast in light of the Zim Kingston, but a human problem across Canada and the world.

In light of your being here today, Mr. Dorward, I'm wondering if you could speak a bit more to your experience as a Tla-o-qui-aht member of when the Zim Kingston spill occurred. Were you contacted in a timely manner? What did that look like? Perhaps you can expand a bit on the communications that occurred in light of the spill.

[Terry Dorward]

Yes. Thank you for that.

The debris spills are, of course, a human problem—thank you for recognizing that—but they are also an environmental and wildlife problem.

Communication has been inadequate for the Zim Kingston spill. We did get messages sent from the Coast Guard. We do have a mosquito fleet that goes out. It's very under budget. The contractor for Danaos has not implemented any recovery frameworks that meaningfully involve first nations. That's something we need to do. That needs to change. We need to get there.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

How long did it take for you to be contacted initially, in the wake of the spill?

[Terry Dorward]

It took over a month.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

We have touched on, and Mr. Hardie was speaking to, the importance of collaboration. Can you expand a bit on that?

Can you provide some examples of whom you feel you're collaborating well with, if there is anybody, and perhaps some of those at the table that you feel you would benefit from having stronger collaborations with in order to respond more effectively when spills like this occur?

[Terry Dorward]

Of course, I would say the Coastal Restoration Society, DFO, Transport Canada and provincial ministries like the Ministry of the Environment and FLNRO. They have all worked with us on successful projects in the past.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

I'm trying to understand a little bit better. Could you speak perhaps specifically to your experience with communications with the contractor who was hired to take on the work? How have your communications been with the contractor who's trying to do the cleanup? How have your communications been with the Coast Guard as debris continues to wash up on the shore? Could you elaborate a little bit on that?

[Terry Dorward]

Danaos has not done well in communication. The Coast Guard has issued messages through regular statements, but our involvement still needs some work.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

I think you've already highlighted this, but I'm trying to understand your thoughts on having a really strong, integrated response plan that includes first nations taking on that stewardship role that you spoke so well to. How do you feel having an integrated response plan in place, in which all of these players are effectively communicating, would help to eliminate the damages that occur from these spills?

[Terry Dorward]

I'd like to know if that even exists and, if so, how we become a part of that. If it does exist, we're not seeing it implemented on the WCVI.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

I have one final question, although I don't know how much time I have left. I think about how important it is to have first nations involved right from the outset and how much more effective this spill response could have been if we had that in place. In light of these spills, could you speak a little bit to the importance of having those on the ground who understand the land?

[Terry Dorward]

Yes. First nations, of course, were the original stewards of these lands. We're a natural choice to lead any recovery effort. We can go into areas where most people can't. We understand the coastal community. Relying on first nations should be the primary goal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll now go to Mr. Zimmer for five minutes or less.

Go ahead, please.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Dorward. Is that the proper way to pronounce your name?

[Terry Dorward]

It's the same as “forward” but with a D.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

That's perfect. Thanks.

I have just a couple of questions. Who do you think is responsible for, first of all, a plan or response to a spill? We're talking here about container spills today, but just generally, who do you think is responsible if spills are to occur in waters close to your community? Whose ultimate responsibility is that?

[Terry Dorward]

I definitely think it's federal, the Coast Guard.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I would agree with you.

[Terry Dorward]

As indigenous people, we still have an ancient responsibility to ensure the well-being of the environment. Even though we don't have a lot of funds, we get out there and do what we can.