Fisheries Committee on Nov. 4th, 2022

[Ghislain Collin]

I have been fishing lobster for two years. I used to only fish for herring and mackerel. The members I represent and for whom I come to ask for compensation are herring and mackerel fishers.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Perfect, that's what I wanted to clarify.

[Ghislain Collin]

They also fish for small groundfish.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I understand you very well.

I want to make something clear, on behalf of myself, not other colleagues in my own party. I have met with several groups, including trade unions. I have also met with fishers' groups in my area who have also been affected by this measure. Since the closure of the fishery, I have been asking for some form of compensation, first of all for the fishers who are strictly dependent on this fishery. As you said, they are the ones affected, they are the ones we need to help. I too find it a bit of a shame that after several months there is still no appropriate support for these fishers.

You spoke earlier about scientific fishing. What kind of experimental fishing is that? I assume it would be to help gather some more data on mackerel and herring and to provide an income for the fishers affected. Is that correct?

[Ghislain Collin]

That is exactly what we want, Mr. Cormier. If the fishers are not in the water fishing, doing scientific or sentinel fishing, where are they going to get their data? They need it and this is one way to collect it.

The guys have the equipment and the expertise. They know where to find the fish. They would be the right people to help the government find data.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You said earlier that there were five fishers who were much more affected than others. You mentioned their age. Are they young fishers who have just started fishing or are they a bit older?

[Ghislain Collin]

They are 64 years of age and older.

[Lauréat Lelièvre]

We also have young people who have invested a lot of money because they believe in fishing with Belitronic machines. They have spent up to $300,000 to buy a core licence, which is just a herring and mackerel licence.

As a fisher, I'm on the water a lot. I can go out and get 150,000 pounds of fish a season, on the hook.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I understand.

Mr. Collin, what kind of compensation are you considering? Would a program like the one we talked about earlier, which would encourage exploratory and scientific fisheries, be a good solution?

[Ghislain Collin]

For the moment, it is financial compensation for what has already happened and cannot be made up for. There is a need to compensate for the loss of income due to the cancellation of the season. Fishers also have dockside monitoring costs and insurance costs.

There are plenty of fees to pay before fishing. You know about that, because you're the son of a fisherman. You have a lot of expenses to cover before you go out on the water, that you continue to pay. The boat is on the dock or in storage and there are rental fees to store the boats. Next year, fishers with no income will have double fees to pay.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Perfect. Thank you.

Mr. Sullivan, with some past decisions regarding the fishery, do you think every time there is a decision made by DFO that it's always a last-minute decision that is presented to fishers? It seems as though most of the time we arrive at the last minute and hear that this is going to happen with 48 hours' notice.

Do you think that happens a lot or not? How do you see it?

[Keith Sullivan]

Was that question put out to others?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

No, it was for you.

[Keith Sullivan]

It's for me. Okay. Thank you.

We see that quite a bit. People have to be able to plan for their seasons and invest and have some level of certainty. It's far too often. We've talked about it with a lot of our fisheries. For instance, for crab, it was right on the eve. That's a big fishery for a lot of people. In the shrimp fishery, we're into the season. The season has already begun before decisions are.... Essentially, people are delayed. It definitely does happen far too often. A decision like this to close a fishery without any notice is clearly unfair to people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier. Your time is up.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less. Go ahead, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Collin and Mr. Lelièvre, I was very moved by your testimonies, which reminded me of my story of fishing capelin with weirs, subject to a spiral of universal decisions that affected fishers of all types. It took seven meetings for Fisheries and Oceans Canada to understand that the weir fishery is distinct from what is done elsewhere.

I realize that your type of fishery is very unique, because it's a bait fishery. So it's not a massive, aggressive fishery for the resource, but a very environmentally responsible fishery. That's what I understand.

We would like to hear what you have to say about this very special fishery. Also, how do you explain the fact that you are basically the one providing data to the government?

[Ghislain Collin]

It has been like this for several years. I've only been in the fishing business a short time and it was already in place when I arrived.

Only Quebec fishers have to fill out a logbook and make an entry call to a dockside monitoring company. We must declare our catch and fill out our logbook before arriving at the dock. Penalties are also applied when these tasks are not done.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

As far as you know, you are the only ones who are forced to do these tasks.

[Ghislain Collin]

Basically, about twenty fishermen from the Baie des Chaleurs and Miscou Island and the dredgers have to carry out these tasks.

We testified in Halifax to show how simple and quick it is. Fishers can apply these controls on the spot if their licence stipulates this. This requirement should be extended to New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland fishers so that they too report their catch before returning to the dock. This would provide the Department of Fisheries and Oceans with the data it lacks.

But the Department of Fisheries and Oceans has never had the courage to impose this measure on the other provinces. All the data it uses today to determine the number of catches and to compile its data and inputs comes mainly from the small hook-and-line fishers of the Baie des Chaleurs. The industrial fishers have to report their catches, so you know, for example, that a plant in New Brunswick received so many pounds of fish. However, no one knows what a fisher sells quietly at the dock or stores at home.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

That's unbelievable.

[Ghislain Collin]

We don't understand why this hasn't been done.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Collin and Mr. Lelièvre, you finally had a meeting in July with the honourable member for Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine.

What was your impression following that meeting?

[Lauréat Lelièvre]

The discussions were very vague.

In fact, Ms. Lebouthillier told us that we weren't going to get any handouts or help. Basically, she told us to go work somewhere else, that lots of places were hiring.

I told her that I had 47 years of experience in fishing, and the conversation ended there.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

How do you explain the fact that licences for mackerel were being issued when the fishery was being considered for closure?

[Lauréat Lelièvre]

Could you repeat the question?