Fisheries Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2022

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Oh, lovely.

[An hon. member]

I'll take them.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Like heck you will.

I want to look at hatcheries. We've heard a lot about them. Some people say they're a wonderful idea. Others have great reservations. Does the DFO have a strategy for hatcheries, either oceanside or interior, in British Columbia?

[Annette Gibbons]

I will ask Rebecca Reid, our regional director general, to provide you with more detail on this.

As you say, and as I understand as well from my time so far in the department, there are different views. Certainly we have different strategies to deal with particularly salmon stocks on the west coast. The question of where hatcheries fit in, of course, is very relevant. Our PSSI, our Pacific salmon initiative—

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I'm aware of that, Ms. Gibbons. Perhaps an answer in writing would be useful for this.

[Annette Gibbons]

Sure. I'd be happy to do that.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you. We'll be back to that subject in due course.

What can the DFO do to close the gap over decisions to close a fishery? We've heard, particularly with the hatchery fish from Washington state, the chinook, that our waters are teeming with them, and yet we don't allow a fishery. We've heard it in mackerel. We've heard in capelin. We've heard it throughout every species. What are we doing to come to an appropriate landing on the decisions that are made to close a fishery?

[Annette Gibbons]

I will mention a couple of things. First of all, in those cross-border fisheries, we have, as you know, various commissions and various bodies that allow us to work out the state of the stocks and what the quotas should be. We work very hard in those bodies to advocate for Canada's interests, of course.

In terms of fishery decisions in general, and notices on the state of stocks and when a closure might be imminent, we certainly try to signal that. We do a lot of consultations before fishery management decisions are made. We have peer-reviewed science. We publish the science ahead of time for those consultations. We signal ahead of time where things are, which gives a sense of.... It's not in all cases, of course. It's a very grey zone. If there's a decision to make on whether or not there is a fishery, it's not always clear-cut. We are signalling ahead of time that the stocks are low through those consultations and through the publication of the science assessments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Gibbons, thank you for being here. I'd like to take this opportunity to raise the issue of climate change. Climate change is a serious issue, but everybody can see that it's going to give you a lot more work to do. In fact, it's been going on for some time. I sympathize with you, because it can't be easy.

When we talk about climate change, we have to look at who is affected and how we can help them. Predictability and financial compensation are two things that will really have to be addressed in the very near future, because climate change is no longer a problem for five or ten years from now; we're knee-deep in it.

Even though it was determined that mackerel stocks had been declining for 10 years, I know of a fisher who allowed his son to buy a boat and gear for the pelagic fishery in 2020. If he had any doubt that the fishery would be closed, he wouldn't have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in a mackerel licence.

Is predictability really on your radar right now? Will it be soon?

[Annette Gibbons]

Yes, we're always looking to improve this aspect.

As you know, there is Canada's national adaptation strategy. Our department is doing more and more work on climate change and its impact on the fishery.

In this context, we want to provide more guidance on the major changes that we're seeing in fishing grounds. For example, some cold-water adapted species are starting to move further north, where the water is cooler.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

There are agricultural assistance programs, such as AgriStability and AgriRecovery. These programs aren't perfect, but as we've seen during the pandemic, they've still helped keep farmers afloat when droughts and floods caused by climate change occurred.

Is a program like this for the fisheries sector, a sort of “fishery solidarity”, possible or probable?

[Annette Gibbons]

We're discussing this with the provinces, who have raised this issue in the context of our federal-provincial-territorial forum on fisheries. Such programs are cost-shared with the provinces, as well as with producers in some cases. We need to do more work on this.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

This makes me feel a little better, and I hope the fishers will find out about it.

Several files are on your desk right now, including the North Atlantic right whale file. The file has a scientific component, but it also reflects a strong desire to preserve the North Atlantic right whale. Everyone agrees and no one doubts that.

However, should we focus more on a more dynamic management of the species rather than always making fishers pay? There has to be a balance between the product of fishing, the exercise of fishing, and the protection of endangered species. Do you think more money should be invested in a more dynamic management of the North Atlantic right whale?

[Annette Gibbons]

We're always looking to manage more dynamically, and to be more responsive to what's happening in specific areas. A portion of the funding requested in these supplementary estimates will be used to expand the national oceans protection plan, including scientific and other research on North Atlantic right whales.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

In terms of the socio-economic aspect, do you think that dealing with social science experts could improve the balance between protecting fishers and protecting the whale? Is that something that could be beneficial?

[Annette Gibbons]

We certainly always take that into consideration in our fisheries management decisions. We consult with communities and groups that represent fishers. It's always very high on our list of considerations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We will now go to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less.

Go ahead, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

It's nice to see you again, Ms. Gibbons.

My first question is this: We've seen over the years a continued increased in closures of the B.C. salmon fisheries. I know that funding and support have been promised and supposedly allocated through the PSSI. That's already in there.

I'm hearing from fishers that no one is seeing anything and that they're not getting any solid information around when it will start. Meanwhile, we're seeing impacts on families as well as crew, vessels and expenses. This impacts every aspect of their lives. I heard, for example, from James Lawson, the president of the United Fishermen and Allied Workers’ Union, from the Heiltsuk nation, that the lack of information about the program is itself causing anxiety.

I'm wondering if you could clarify when B.C. salmon fishers will finally receive clarity with respect to a plan and have the funding in place to be able to move ahead with this.

[Annette Gibbons]

I think we've had a slower start on certain elements of the PSSI for sure, but we're happy to provide you with more details on the various elements and the rollout in the written response that we'll be providing the committee.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

Is there anything that I could pass on to the fishers and all those who are contacting me around this, aside from the information that you'll be sending? Is there any sort of hope for the people who are waiting for more information?

[Annette Gibbons]

We certainly do understand and realize that it's difficult. We're working as quickly as we can to be able to provide more specificity.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

The federal government has also committed to zero plastic waste by 2030, but currently we're not seeing a clear, viable plan on how to get there. We're seeing plastic use continuing to increase. We are hearing about the impacts of increased microplastics in our oceans and how those end up in our seafood, in our bodies and recently even in our blood. I'm sure you've read about that.

What is the department doing to address this crisis of plastics in our oceans and in our food chains?

[Annette Gibbons]

There are a number of things in DFO. Certainly our science would touch on looking at the impacts of plastics on fish populations and on the marine environment more generally. We are very heavily involved in ghost gear detection and removal through the ghost gear program. There is a fund that is a really important piece of that. There has been an increase to that fund following Fiona in order to deal with the particular impacts of ghost gear from the storm. Those are some of the particular pieces in our department.

Of course, a lot of the work on this is being done with Environment and Climate Change Canada and other departments around town as well.