Fisheries Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2022

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

What actions have you or your department taken to ensure that independent Canadian harvesters and coastal communities have fair benefits from Canada's fisheries?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

That study of beneficial ownership is under way right now. I'm looking forward to seeing the conclusions and sharing them with the member.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Can you tell us what resources you have allocated to that? From what we've heard, it may only be one full-time equivalent. Is it any further than that?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I'll have to give you that in writing.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I would appreciate that. Thank you very much.

When it comes to first nations agreements and reconciliation, we all support reconciliation with indigenous peoples as a duty for all of Canada.

Much of the cost so far is landing on established fisheries systems and networks. How long does the department intend to continue to exclusively use fisheries to satisfy treaty rights?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

There are many ways that our government is satisfying treaty rights. They include on-land access, funding for clean drinking water, support for children in care and treaty funds. There are many ways that we are advancing our reconciliation agenda.

For first nations that have fisheries as a traditional practice, we're restoring to them the opportunity to be part of fisheries, as is their right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm very concerned about small craft harbours, particularly those in the St. Lawrence River and the Gulf. With climate change, increasing storms and rising sea levels, I wonder if there will be any new funding for those harbours that are in poor condition.

On another issue, the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary is being called upon more and more. Most of the people who are part of it are volunteers. They have to pay up to $6,000 to equip themselves. That concerns me as well.

However, Madam Minister, I would like to come back to the mackerel and herring fishers. You told us that there were programs to support these people. Could you provide me with a list of them? These fishers haven't heard of such programs.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

What I was saying is that there is EI—

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

It doesn't work.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

—and that the department is creating a new program to provide training and education for those who are no longer employed.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

If I understand correctly, the solution they are being offered is to change jobs and abandon the one they've always done.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Fishers and their communities are a priority, but respecting conservation is essential. If we don't, the children and grandchildren of fishers will no longer have the opportunity to fish. It's up to us to make sure that the fishery will last for generations to come.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Is predictability a concept—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

There are only about 11 seconds left. There's hardly time to get an answer. I'm trying to get this full round in while the minister is here.

Ms. Barron, you have two and a half minutes or less.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair. I'm going to try to talk quickly so that I can get it all in.

Thank you, Minister. I want to follow up on the last question I was asking you about the precautionary principle.

I've heard some rationale that some of the reason we're not getting fish farms out of the water is inconclusive science. That's exactly what the precautionary principle is intended for. When there's inconclusive science, you err on the side of caution. You don't do nothing, which is what we're seeing, but quite the opposite: You remove the potential damage.

Why aren't we seeing the precautionary principle put into place when it comes to open-net fish farms?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

The precautionary principle is exactly why we are committed to a transition away from open-net pen salmon farming. It's the open-net pen aspect that allows the intermingling of the waste from the fish farms to be in the open ocean, where it can affect wild fish. It's that interaction between the farms and wild fish that is the concern. While we don't need perfect science, we need to be precautionary. I agree.

However, we are asking the industry to advance the speed and effectiveness of its innovation to greatly...to progressively minimize or eliminate that interaction between the farms and the wild salmon—

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister. I will move on to my next question.

I will say I'm concerned that we've been allowing industry to control what has been happening in our waters and to damage our waters for far too long. It's time for us to start protecting wild salmon, and our communities as well.

I want to move to the west coast commercial fishers. Unfortunately, we're seeing on the west coast licences being treated like a private stock market. We've seen quite a different approach being taken on the east coast, however.

There were recommendations that were brought forward, right from this committee, to reform the west coast fishery. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, none have been implemented. One of those recommendations was around a transparent beneficial owner registry, so that Canadians can see which corporations own licences in the west coast fishery, instead of having all these numbered companies that can't be attached to whomever it is.

Why is this government okay with corporations controlling so much of the vital fishery? Shouldn't Canadians at least know who owns them?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

As I mentioned earlier to a previous question, we are working on identifying the beneficial ownership of the fishery. As I know the member is aware, the histories of the east coast and the west coast are quite different. I'm not going to prejudge the outcome of that study and our reflection on inshore and offshore fishery allocations on the west coast.

I want to say that the fisheries on the west coast have been an important source of employment and economic opportunities. Whether they're large ships or smaller ones, they've been an important part of our economy on the west coast. I hope that fisheries will continue to be an important part of our economy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for five minutes or less, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

DFO small craft harbours run the abandoned and wrecked vessels removal program. Is that correct?

Could you answer yes or no?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Yes, it does.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It works in conjunction with the Ship-source Oil Pollution Fund to remove abandoned vessels and cover the costs. Is that correct?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Can you repeat that, please?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It works with the Ship-source Oil Pollution Fund to recover vessels and implement that program as well, right?