Fisheries Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2022

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

What's the total complement, not including Coast Guard, at DFO? How many people, including consultants, work just at DFO?

[Richard Goodyear]

I apologize. I didn't catch that. Can you repeat your question?

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I'm looking for the total number of people who work for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

[Richard Goodyear]

Inclusive of the Coast Guard?

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Exclusive of the Coast Guard.

[Annette Gibbons, Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

We were in the range of 14,370 in 2021. It would be a little bit different from that now, but that's the rough amount, including the Coast Guard.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

What percentage of that total complement would work here in Ottawa versus out toward the coasts?

[Annette Gibbons]

It's about 80% in the regions. That would be across the country, including the Arctic, the Prairies and Ontario.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

Minister, we're waiting for the fourth pillar in the Pacific salmon strategic initiative. This is on an integrated management and collaboration MOU. Can you tell us where we are on that?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thanks.

As I know the committee knows, the Pacific salmon initiative is a foundational strategy of $647 million to advance the protection and rebuilding of wild salmon. One of the key challenges has been that this has been held in a number of different jurisdictions, in a way. Indigenous communities have some parts of that, as do the province and the federal government, so we're working to create a tripartite approach.

Already there has been a lot of real action on the ground. For example, BCSRIF is the restoration program that we co-fund that with the provincial government, which has just recently announced an additional $43 million to put into the SRIF funding.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie. You have only 10 seconds left, so there's hardly time to get in a question, let alone an answer.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to thank the witnesses here today. Madam Minister, it's always a pleasure to see you. I would also like to thank the new speakers and those we know well for being here.

Madam Minister, I would like you to tell us what your plan is to help the fishers who were penalized last March because of the closure of the mackerel and herring fishery. We've heard disturbing testimony from people who have told us that their lives, their families' lives and their communities' lives have been completely disrupted. It was a domino effect that was caused by this last-minute decision.

Do you plan to offer substantial assistance to the fishers who were so suddenly penalized, such as financial assistance or compensation in the form of quotas?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you for that question.

Our government's goal is to grow Canada's fish and seafood sector. The science clearly shows that mackerel stocks are in the critical zone and have been for over 10 years. It's difficult to reduce the catch rate like that, but I had to do it to take into account the long-term situation.

It's not my department that provides compensation for conservation decisions. It's another department—

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Have you provided for financial compensation or compensation in the form of quotas?

These families would like to fish; it's their life, but they have no other fishing options. A minister in your government suggested—to put it mildly—that these fishers find other work. Do you share her position?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

My position is that it's important to take to heart the situations of families, and small and medium-sized fishing enterprises. At the same time, if the future of the fisheries is to be built on a solid foundation, the catch rates of stocks in the critical zone need to be reduced.

These decisions are always difficult to make, but I did it for the well-being of our children and grandchildren.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I fully agree with you, but what are we doing to help these families who no longer have work, who can only fish for mackerel and herring, but who aren't being given the opportunity to do so? Do you have a plan?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

The government has a plan for that, and it's employment insurance.

Like all other Canadians, the fishers contribute to the employment insurance fund so they can access it when they need it.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

But the EI rules have changed. Since these fishers haven't worked, they aren't eligible.

What do we tell them? I'm heartbroken, and I have no words.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

We have a retraining program to help people who find themselves in that kind of situation, not just in fisheries, but in other industries with declining numbers of workers. That is why our department has created a wide range of programs to help them.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

Do you think it's normal to accept all the side effects of these decisions, knowing that the United States has no restrictions on mackerel and herring fishing? As a minimum psychological compensation for Canadian fishers, do you foresee a better co‑management of these stocks with the United States?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I fully agree with the need to coordinate our programs with those of the United States. That's why I recently met with my U.S. counterpart to ask him to work closely with my department to align our approaches to our shared fishing grounds. He was in full agreement.

This is a new administration, compared to that of the previous president. This is a pretty conservative administration when it comes to fisheries, and it's going to apply a precautionary principle, as we do in the department. I'm looking forward to the work we're going to do together to avoid this type of problem, where American fishers are fishing a species that is under a ban on our side.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

We all agree that it is very hard psychologically for the fishers who have been penalized.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Desbiens.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the minister and officials for being here today.

During the summer that just passed, I had an opportunity to visit beautiful Nunavut. I know, Minister, that you were also there this summer. I had the incredible opportunity to visit Pangnirtung Fisheries and to take a tour of their facilities. While I was there, fishers and workers at the plant showed me the many ways in which this plant is core to the community in processing local seafood catches, including Arctic char, shrimp and turbot.

Despite having the capacity to catch and process fish and provide food security in their own community and for export, their plant is in dire need of improvements, including renovations and expansions to ensure this vital work can continue. Can you clarify, Minister, what you're doing to ensure that key investments in communities in Nunavut, including in Pangnirtung Fisheries, are being made and delivered?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thanks for that question.

The Arctic region is a very important part of our thinking and our work. At DFO, indigenous reconciliation is inherent in our work, especially in the Arctic region. That's why Canada created a distinct Arctic region.

As the member mentioned, I was up there for a week to meet with fish harvesters and others in the different communities.

We're in the process of moving staff into the Arctic and really setting up so that we have more of a presence there. We're very much involved in consulting with the different Inuit communities to understand what their needs are. We have a strong program in the Canadian Coast Guard to bring indigenous and Inuit people into the Coast Guard with auxiliary wharves. We'll continue to work to understand and respond to the needs of Inuit people in the Arctic region.