Evidence of meeting #58 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pinnipeds.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Robert Hardy  Fisheries Consultant, As an Individual
Kris Vascotto  Executive Director, Atlantic Groundfish Council
Danny Arsenault  Chair, Groundfish Advisory Committee, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Kenneth LeClair  Vice President, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Andrew Trites  Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
Sandra Gauthier  Executive Director, Exploramer
Ken Pearce  President, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society
Matt Stabler  Director, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society

5:30 p.m.

Matt Stabler Director, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society

Yes. In fact, we've done very serious investigations into that. We have determined that we have markets for hides, we have markets for the meat, and we have markets for the omega-3 fatty acids. The only one that we have left to deal with is the bones. Those markets exist far and beyond, for any harvest size that we propose.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Thank you.

What is the biggest impediment to developing those markets?

5:30 p.m.

Director, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society

Matt Stabler

The biggest impediment to those markets is DFO. They have had our IFMP in front of them for five and a half years. They come up with nonsensical roadblocks repeatedly.

It is due to a fear of the public that they are doing this. None of their impediments are based on science.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Thank you.

Could you elaborate a little on the Washington and Oregon actions? I don't think you had a chance to in the opening remarks.

5:30 p.m.

Director, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society

Matt Stabler

With the chair's permission, if I can have 30 to 40 seconds, I would like to do my presentation. Can I have leave to do that?

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

It's up to Mr. Arnold.

5:30 p.m.

Director, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society

Matt Stabler

Okay.

My name is Matt Stabler. I'm a retired fisheries biologist with considerable experience, and now a recently forced-out retired commercial salmon troller in B.C. From my direct experience on the ground in both occupations and from published data, it is impossible to have any other determination than one that notes that our west coast salmon are in extremely serious trouble right now. The vast majority of their populations are depressed and growing rapidly more so each and every year.

While a myriad of issues are causing this, such as habitat loss and global warming, there are others. The most pressing at this point in time, and the only one we can act upon immediately, is the depredation by seals and sea lions. Current peer-reviewed and proven studies note that between 40% to 60% of outgoing coho and chinook salmon smolts from the Fraser and the vast majority of B.C.'s coastal freshwater systems are consumed annually by these predators. Furthering the reduction of their numbers is the fact that these pinnipeds also target all salmon species while they are at sea, and upon their return to their natal waters to spawn.

This is entirely unsustainable. If left unchecked, we will soon be bearing witness to the extirpation of salmon species overall in our west coast waters.

The science is in, folks. The science is conclusive. Calling for more studies in this regard, while the salmon populations plummet as they are, is basically a fool's errand. The time to act was yesterday. If we want our future generations to have access to salmon and many other fisheries, such as herring, etc., we must act immediately upon the one bottleneck we can in order to help these resources avoid extinction. That will provide us with the time required to address the other bottlenecks these resources face.

Should we not act today, the responsibility for the demise of these very precious resources is on us.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Thank you, Mr. Stabler.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

You have 25 seconds, Mr. Arnold.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Thank you.

You've described some of the impacts. What would be the impacts on communities and other individuals like yourselves in the long term if we didn't act now?

5:35 p.m.

Director, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society

Matt Stabler

What we are bearing witness to today is the collapse of salmon and herring and other industries. You cannot overestimate what that means to coastal communities. My fleet was 400 boats strong when I started. Today we have 30 active commercial trollers. What has that done to the communities they live in? It has destroyed them, sir.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for four minutes or less, please.

March 23rd, 2023 / 5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

Mr. Stabler, I was on the boats out of Prince Rupert back in the early seventies. The fishing community was pretty strong back then.

Ken, I've enjoyed receiving your emails over time. I don't know if you've cut me off or not. I haven't seen that many lately. Have you gone quiet on us, or...?

5:35 p.m.

President, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society

Ken Pearce

You're right back on.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Oh good. Thank you.

Professor Trites, you're swimming against the stream here, it would appear, with your comments. I wanted to ask whether we have a seal problem or we simply have problem seals, because that seems to be where Washington state focused its efforts.

5:35 p.m.

Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual

Dr. Andrew Trites

There certainly are problem seals. Where Washington state is focused is at the dams and up in the rivers. While the sea lions there did not create the problems, they are benefiting from having dammed the rivers, and they're preventing salmon from getting up and spawning. Those are very targeted removals.

What's being proposed in British Columbia is not targeted removals of problem animals, but the removal of half of all the population. Doing so will have an immediate consequence on transiting killer whales—

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Right. I have to interrupt here—I'm sorry—because I have limited time.

I've heard it said that the positioning of log booms is a problem, especially on the Fraser River.

5:35 p.m.

Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual

Dr. Andrew Trites

Log booms are perhaps not the biggest problems on the Fraser River, but log booms have provided artificial habitat and areas where animals can rest, breed and get more access. There are efforts to remove log booms and recover some of the estuaries, but certainly, log booms have been one of the factors that have made it easier for seals to access salmon.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

We heard cryptic testimony from Norway that their seal problem just “went away”. Do you know anything more about what happened over there?

5:35 p.m.

Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual

Dr. Andrew Trites

I don't know the particulars—

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

I'm sorry. That was a question for Mr. Pearce.

5:35 p.m.

President, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society

Ken Pearce

I'm sorry. I didn't get the question.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

We heard very cryptic evidence from Norway that their seal problem just “went away”. That's exactly what he said. Do you know what happened over there?

5:35 p.m.

President, Pacific Balance Pinniped Society

Ken Pearce

I'd phrase it a little more politely. I'd say, “They've been properly dealt with.”

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Okay. All right.

Yes, Mr. Stabler.