Fisheries Committee on Oct. 26th, 2023

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It sounds like you can't answer that question.

The minister wasn't able to answer why the strategic salmon health initiative program, which was started by the previous Conservative government as a result of the Cohen commission, was abandoned by your department. Why did they do that, and why did they not complete the four phases that were recommended after so many years of work and research had gone into that program?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I would ask the officials to provide that in writing, because we've gone way over time on the actual questioning for Mr. Arnold.

[Annette Gibbons]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey for six minutes or less, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

This is through you, Chair, to the deputy minister. Ms. Gibbons, are you, as well as the associate deputy minister and the most senior assistant deputy ministers in the department, aware of the growing concern on the east coast within the lobster fishery, primarily, of unreported cash sales?

[Annette Gibbons]

Yes, I am aware there are concerns.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

The department's aware. How long have you been aware?

[Annette Gibbons]

I've been aware that there are unreported sales, illegal sales, in fisheries since I joined. That is part of the business of regulating this sector. That's the reason we have a conservation protection officer contingent—because there is illegal fishing.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Briefly, what steps has the department been taking to confirm it is accurate?

[Annette Gibbons]

Obviously, our first line of defence, of course, is to make sure we enforce the Fisheries Act, and that people who are fishing have licences. What I would—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

How many charges have been laid in relation to unreported cash sales of lobster on the east coast?

[Annette Gibbons]

I can't give you a specific number, but—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Can you provide it to the committee?

[Annette Gibbons]

I can talk to my team about that.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay, thank you.

The fishery underpins the economy of coastal Atlantic Canada. I hear it constantly. In fact, I was with the minister this summer, and we both got an earful at the wharf on this particular issue. I want to confirm that the most senior officials in the department are aware of it, and if they are aware of it, I take it you will be taking concrete action to correct it.

[Annette Gibbons]

The provinces regulate the sales, so we work with them.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Ms. Gibbons, no. DFO regulates and documents the sale of lobster from the fisher to the buyer. It's the federal department's responsibility to document that particular transaction. The provinces license the buyer and they license the processor, but it's your responsibility to ensure that the documentation between the fisher and the buyer is accurate and totally reflects the catches that are being made.

I want to follow up on what my colleague Mr. Perkins said, but from a different angle. Recently, it's been in the media—certainly in social media—that the department sponsored through fisher organizations a lobster trap retrieval program in LFA 25, which is in the Northumberland Strait, between P.E.I. and New Brunswick. An extensive number of lobster traps were recovered in that process. This was after the season, and they were still out.

If they were still out after the season, would that gear be illegal?

[Annette Gibbons]

I'll ask Adam Burns to answer that.

[Adam Burns, Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

When we retrieve gear through the ghost gear program, we first look at whether it's been reported as having been lost, which is a requirement of licence conditions.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Was there any gear in LFA 25 reported as being lost before the retrieval program was conducted?

[Adam Burns]

Absolutely. I'm sure there was. I don't know for a fact what was reported.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Could you check and advise the committee if there were reports of lost gear and where, and who reported the lost gear?

[Adam Burns]

We would certainly be able to provide you the statistics on the reporting, but we have a very high level of reporting for lost gear. There is a fair amount that happens each season.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I believe it's paramount.... Various ministers made the comment that conservation drives the department and conservation is essential for the maintenance, stability and growth of the fishery. I'm referencing lobster here.

What irritated commercial fishers was that there was an extensive number of traps retrieved that were landed, and then DFO directed and paid for them to be returned to a first nations community in New Brunswick. Can you confirm that?

[Adam Burns]

I would have to look into the details of that specific situation.