Fisheries Committee on Oct. 26th, 2023

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question is for Ms. Gibbons.

Stakeholder groups like the MFU, the PEIFA and the UFCA in the Maritimes are quite concerned that the rights and reconciliation agreements being negotiated are being negotiated secretly and without any transparency.

Is there any chance that all stakeholders can be represented at the table during these negotiations?

[Annette Gibbons]

I think this is an issue. Fish harvesters and indigenous communities are fishing side by side with each other in their communities. We know there is a great interest on the part of non-indigenous harvesters in what the government is negotiating. We certainly try to work on that education and discussion piece.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thanks, Ms. Gibbons.

You just said that both indigenous and non-indigenous share a resource and work side by side. Why are non-indigenous not sharing in the consultation process?

[Annette Gibbons]

There are discussions about what we are doing, absolutely. We consult with the non-indigenous fish harvester communities and associations on what we are doing in general. I've had discussions myself on that subject.

There are constant conversations.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

The concerns I'm bringing to you are based on conversations I've had as recently as two hours ago with these stakeholder organizations in the Maritimes.

Why are these agreements not being published in the Canada Gazette, per the requirement laid out in Bill C-68?

[Annette Gibbons]

I'm not sure if one of my colleagues has more to add on this, but the agreements we have with indigenous communities are nation-to-nation agreements, so they would be subject to this sort of protocol in that context.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Is it a policy decision, or is it on a legal basis that these negotiations are strictly nation to nation and not bringing in all stakeholders?

[Annette Gibbons]

We are informed by various things in our interactions with indigenous communities, which are founded fundamentally on the constitutional rights they have.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Is there no policy currently you're working off in the development of these RRAs?

[Annette Gibbons]

As I said, these are nation to nation, and in that context we respect that nation-to-nation construct.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Do you respect the rights of stakeholders who have had a certain level of access to the resource? Why do you not want to negotiate with those stakeholders? In the case of elvers, for one, the whole industry is watching what's going on with them, and they're nervous. You've made them extremely nervous, because 14% of their quota was confiscated. There were no negotiations and there was no regard for willing buyer, willing seller. This is not coming from me. This is coming from the people who are involved in that industry, and they're concerned. What are you going to do about it?

[Annette Gibbons]

We always have consultations with industry before we open fisheries. We have consultations on changes and on allocation of quota.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

My last question is a brief one, Mr. Chair. Either official can answer this one. Do you respect the work that this committee does?

[Annette Gibbons]

Of course.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Do you respect the reports that come out of this committee?

[Annette Gibbons]

Yes.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Last year we put out a report with a recommendation that Canada match the Americans' mackerel quota, and it was completely disregarded. There was no dissenting report. It was a unanimous report. Why was that recommendation not followed? Did you have any consultations with the Americans on that? Just be brief. You have 30 seconds or less.

[Annette Gibbons]

I believe the response to the committee on your mackerel report is pending. We expect it to be made available to you shortly. We are constantly in discussions with the U.S. on the management of resources like mackerel, which cross the borders.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you.

I'll turn it over to Mr.—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Your five minutes are up, buddy. You've gone over, actually.

We'll finish off with Mr. Kelloway for five minutes or less, please.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think I'm the last questioner between you and a meal.

I want to focus, actually, on two things. The first is the Canadian Coast Guard College, which is located in Sydney and is an absolute jewel in Cape Breton, and for Canada as well, in terms of training men and women across this country from coast to coast to coast.

I want to look into something that I receive a lot on locally but also provincially, where we have the Canadian Coast Guard College and we have the cadets. I hear often from industry and from indigenous folks and leaders in indigenous communities. Also, a fair number of times I've heard, from a safety perspective, of the need to look at more of a presence of Coast Guard vessels actually in the vicinity of Sydney. I'm wondering if that's something that perhaps is being looked at with partners or if it's something we could look at doing a deep dive on. It is something that has consistently come up, and I think it is worthy of a real, tangible discussion.

That's one question. I'll try to give my other question and then let people answer.

Elvers have been brought up a lot today with respect to the last couple of years and the unlawful actions of quite a few people. You talked about going to Maine and about looking at some of their best practices.

I am wondering if you can dive in just a little deeper as to some other best practices that we may have learned from that trip, i.e., regulation changes and fines that are actually meaningful and impactful, that would persuade someone...or have them think twice about doing it.

For folks at home, my understanding is that if you think of a 500-millilitre jar of peanut butter and put elvers into that jar of peanut butter, it would get you $5,000 illegally.

I'm wondering if you could speak to the other measures on the elver file that we may be looking at, from our Maine experience, but also from other research you've done.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I have an allergy to peanut butter now.

[Annette Gibbons]

They take the peanut butter out.

Mr. Chair, I hope the parliamentary secretary will permit me a very quick correction on something I said earlier, if that's okay.

On eels, I believe I used the wrong term. Eels are assessed by the committee on species at risk as “threatened”, not “listed”. I just wanted to be clear on that.

Mr. Kelloway, we have certainly looked—and are looking—at all aspects. There's still quite a bit of work under way, and we're really trying to work very intensively, given the expectations around 2024.

Looking at the regulatory regime, for example, which would include fines assessed, things that are prohibited and activities that are prohibited, we're taking inspiration from the Maine case in elver, just because it is so relevant and proximate.

Other things that are done in other countries with species that are similar to this are things we are looking at.

On the Coast Guard, of course, I'll turn to the commissioner.

[Mario Pelletier]

Thanks for the question, and thanks for your kind words about the college. Having attended it more than 38 years ago now, I take particular pride in the very essential work it does to support the fleet of the future.

As far as more resources around Cape Breton are concerned, through the national shipbuilding strategy we have a new lifeboat at Louisbourg station. It's much more capable than the one we used to have. Part of the fleet renewal plan, too, is to have a dedicated training vessel at the college. That has yet to be built, but it's in our plan, so there will be more resources available there.

We always station our large assets just off Cape Breton for northeast Nova Scotia. We call it the search and rescue zone, so we're very mindful of our presence everywhere.

I'm happy to report that the new lifeboats we got from two shipyards are extremely efficient, and the crews are very proud to be operating them.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you.