Evidence of meeting #94 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
Yes. It's shared with DFO as well.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Okay. Thank you.
On the resources, which both MP Barron and MP Arnold raised, I just have a question on the agreements. Where you have agreements in place, has DFO provided your organizations or members with any support for that catch monitoring process you do—financial, training or anything else—or is that something you've had to fund and do all on your own?
5:25 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
I believe they've used some training dollars in the past, and obviously some of the contributions to salaries, to staff, contribute to some of that effort.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
5:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
Yes. For our organization, we don't oversee it. It's all done independently by a few nations and one organization in the lower Fraser.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Before Mr. Witzky answers, maybe I can do a double question. There's that answer, and you mentioned a mark-selective fishery. Though a mark-selective fishery is mainly American, do you believe we should not be having a mark-selective fishery on raised Pacific salmon in B.C. as a requirement?
5:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
That's a pretty big can of worms.
We don't support mark-selective fisheries because we believe there's already enough compromise on conservation. The very fish we're trying to conserve, they're being intercepted in marine waters in mixed stock fisheries.
I think I'll stop there in case Greg has a comment.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Actually, Mr. Perkins has gone a little bit over on his time, so if anybody does have an answer to that question who didn't get a chance, you can certainly submit it in writing.
We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey for five minutes or less, please.
January 30th, 2024 / 5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Chair.
My question would be to whichever witness wants to answer, because this committee has had witnesses appear and there's been some alarming, concerning testimony given to the committee as it relates to illegal and unreported fishing. My question would be to whomever wants to answer. Can you identify for the committee whether there is a stock on the west coast—because like Mr. Perkins, I'm from the east coast, so I'm not fully familiar with the west coast—that you can point to that is in good shape and is well managed?
I'll start with Mr. Russ, and possibly....
Okay, it's taking a really long time, so that tells me there's not a lot.
My follow-up question would be this: Is the Department of Fisheries and Oceans putting too many resources into protection, management and conservation?
5:25 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
You're asking if the department is putting too many resources into protection and enforcement?
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
5:25 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
That almost feels a bit loaded.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Actually, nobody has jumped at the answer, but why I posed the question is that our government has put a lot of resources into DFO and we're constantly being criticized as spending too much money. However—and I go back to your comment—the stocks in Canada are under pressure in most places.
We've had years and years of cutbacks in DFO on science and in the area of conservation. Are we—excuse the term—reaping that harvest today? If I look at the demographics of fisheries and the data, it's coming down. That relates to my question. Can you point to a resource that is abundant, well managed and thriving, where there is no illegal or unreported activity occurring?
Is that fair?
5:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
That's fair. I'm happy to chime in....
I'm sorry. Go ahead.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I'm going to run out of time before I get an answer.
My questions are sincere and genuine, because everybody who has appeared before the committee says the department doesn't have enough resources and they're not putting enough into protection and conservation. I'm adding some commonality to the positions given, but that's the basis.
5:30 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
I'll give a rebuttal to the question, Mr. Chair.
Are the resources being directed in the right way? Is the approach to management being—
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
That's why I want. Are they?
Do you have advice for this committee on where the department's resources are not properly allocated and could be moved to other areas?
5:30 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
I wouldn't say I have advice on how to allocate dollars to your managed programs—
5:30 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
For the resources, I wouldn't say that.
What I would say is that, as I mentioned in my opening comments regarding the opportunity for comanagement—and I believe some of my colleagues online referenced traditional knowledge—if we try to bring in more traditional knowledge from people who have survived in these territories off of these resources and try to bring some alignment between that and DFO's approach to management currently, perhaps there may be some success going forward into the future.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Is there a specific success you could point to and give to this committee where acquired first nations knowledge and management tools were put into effect in a fishery that is sustainable and successful?
5:30 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
Not currently.... Regarding any minor areas, perhaps some of my colleagues may have something to say.
5:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
I'm happy to try to respond briefly to your question about resources.
In short, I have two words: salmon crisis. It's been happening for the last four decades, and it's just coming to a head now. There are not enough resources either way. I think devolution and decentralization to first nations is the way to go, because you have to get down to the nation and region scale to make this money effective.
5:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Fraser Salmon Management Council
I can point to a success.
There's one large stock of chinook salmon that many people on the coast depend on. It's the summer 4-1 chinook that spawn in my neighbourhood in the South Thompson-Shuswap rivers. A record number came back this year. There's a lot of indigenous knowledge in how we looked after those runs well up into the interior. DFO does the management of that run, so it's pretty strong. They consult with first nations and even try to comanage.