Evidence of meeting #94 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
Yes. It leaves us in a very difficult place in terms of being able to carry out a lot of the work on the ground that our field officers are carrying out—and the office folks as well.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Thank you.
It looks like I only have 10 seconds left. Instead of asking my big question, I'll just say thank you very much. Hopefully, I'll get more in after.
Thank you.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Ms. Barron.
We'll now go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
Mr. Ned, I'll start with you, if I could.
You mentioned during your opening that government management systems are not protecting salmon. Have you raised this concern with DFO? If you have, what was their response?
5:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
Thank you for the question.
We do it regularly through the integrated fisheries management plans. We submit papers upon papers and pages of recommendations. They're rarely responded to effectively in terms of our interests to conserve and protect the fish, and also our access for food, social and ceremonial, and economic opportunities.
I would view that instrument as the main challenge in our way in our ability to protect the fish and have opportunities for harvest.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
I'll turn to Mr. Russ now.
I'm hoping you might be able to help the committee better understand which monitoring enforcement protocols are in place for west coast fisheries.
Under the fisheries agreements that exist today between the Crown and the organizations you represent, I understand there are provisions for comanagement and co-governance. Part of governance is regulation, and regulations need to be enforced.
Do the fisheries agreements between the Crown and the organizations you represent provide the organizations with authorities to enforce the regulations determined by your organizations and members?
5:05 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
No, there are no authorities given to our guardians to enforce under the federal regulation system.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Has the Crown made commitments to provide funds to support the development of activities essential to the fisheries' management and governance?
5:05 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
There has been some funding supported for training opportunities. As I mentioned in my previous responses, staff are working on stats to bring back to us, in order to have discussions with the department about the lack of resourcing currently in place to carry out the work.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Perhaps, Mr. Ned or Mr. Witzky, if you heard those questions, do you have any further responses to those questions?
Have the organizations you represent been authorized to monitor and enforce regulations?
5:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
Unfortunately not. There was an organization called the Lower Fraser Fisheries Authority in the early 1990s, which was afforded aboriginal fisheries officers, or AFOs. Unfortunately, the government decided to take that program away. There wasn't enough funding or political will to continue to support it.
Would we entertain it again? Absolutely. We want to be able to administer and implement guardianship and stewardship programs in our territories.
Thank you for the question.
5:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Fraser Salmon Management Council
The organization that I work for and represent does collaborative management, governance and conservation of Fraser salmon, so we're more like a governance political body. We don't do fieldwork, so the answer is no to providing support for guardians.
We're growing. We're a very young organization—now four years old—and it's going to take us a while to build to the point where we're actually managing fish along with DFO. We want to do the job with them; we just need the ability given to us.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Have any of the organizations the three of you represent received any commitment from the Crown to provide resources for enforcement?
Mr. Russ, go ahead.
5:10 p.m.
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
For enforcement, I think nations that perhaps have the aboriginal fisheries strategy agreement in place are provided a small amount that supports their guardian programs, or whatever title their field staff use. It's more of a monitoring process. I wouldn't call it “enforcement” at this stage.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
The answer's no for the lower Fraser, but we'd love to implement and support the DFO officers, who I believe are under-resourced themselves. There's not an opportunity for them to fully enforce the lower Fraser and other territories.
5:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Fraser Salmon Management Council
Out of our 76 first nations in B.C.—many of them are on the coast—who have a BCR signed on to our agreement, they would love to do the same. It makes sense for indigenous people who are on the land to monitor the land and enforce the jurisdiction.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Arnold.
We'll now go to Mr. Hanley for five minutes or less, please.
January 30th, 2024 / 5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
Thanks, first of all, to all three of you for being here.
Mr. Witzky, I'll begin with you about the Fraser Salmon Management Council. The way you describe it, I think, is that this agreement—and I think you called it a historic agreement with DFO—to put you at the decision-making table is a good concept, but the implementation is slow to actually get you to that practical decision-making or collaborative decision-making. Is that an accurate way to describe it?
5:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Fraser Salmon Management Council
You said it exactly. We started without an implementation plan. We were rushed in because of an election coming up, and at the time Minister Wilkinson did sign it, along with our president, and then we decided afterwards we didn't have a plan. We dove in head-first, and you know what happens with that: Sometimes you hit the bottom.
Now we're trying to fix those hurts and implement it as best we can. With a lack of adequate funding and staff, we're struggling with that. DFO is coming along ever so slowly, but we need help on our end to help DFO.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
In a practical sense, what would that help look like? I guess resources are one thing—and maybe attention is another, given the broad mandate of DFO—but in practical terms, what would you like to see?
5:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Fraser Salmon Management Council
Putting aside all the resourcing and capacity and staffing needs, we'd like to see DFO.... When it's time for them to bring our message—which is a joint, collaborative message—forward to the high-level decision-makers, and then on to the minister and the minister's staff, we'd like to know that the message being delivered is what we agreed to. Right now it's a black box for us when it goes that far. We get to a certain point and then they say, “Sit back and we'll take care of you Indians.” That's where we're struggling, and that seems to be not just with fisheries but with a lot of programs throughout the government.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
Another theme that I'm hearing, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that overall IUU per se—illegal, unregulated, unreported fishing—is less of a concern than, really, proper regulation and support of salmon conservation.
5:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Fraser Salmon Management Council
Well, I wouldn't say that. There's a lot of unregulated, unreported rec fisheries. I'm focusing on the rec fishery because that's what I know about, but it's unreported and unregulated because there aren't the programs and processes in place to enforce it and monitor it.