Evidence of meeting #94 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
They're managing one stock well on the west coast. Is that what you're telling us?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
You've gone over time, Mr. Morrissey.
We still have about 10 minutes left. We can carve it up as a five-minute round for each, or two and a half for everyone.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Good luck with that.
First up is Mr. Small.
We'll do two and a half minutes for each party.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL
I'm going to pass this over to Mr. Arnold.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
I want to start out again with Mr. Russ, but maybe all three can answer.
Who loses, or what is lost, when illegal, unreported and unregulated fisheries happen?
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
I would say it's more so the species and the ecosystem, if it's going unreported.
January 30th, 2024 / 5:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
I concur. The resource loses. Ultimately, we lose as first nations. When the salmon disappear, so do our culture and identity.
Executive Director, Fraser Salmon Management Council
I agree with both of them. Also, human nature loses, because we try to be truthful people in our lives and spirits.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you for all of that.
Who and what would benefit the most if we were able to restore the stocks to the plentiful numbers they were at?
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
I think everybody benefits. As my colleagues mentioned, the communities that have relied on these resources since time immemorial...definitely.
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
Yes, it's a similar answer. It's all about the ecosystem and the beings who rely on salmon and our water. That's first and foremost for me. We don't have a salmon problem. We have a people problem. If we disappeared from the earth today, I think the fish would be fine.
Executive Director, Fraser Salmon Management Council
I totally support that and agree. It's the ecosystem.
Also, the government will benefit, because when the salmon are resilient and healthy and come back, you won't have to deal with us anymore. You'll be working on housing and all the health problems.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Okay. Thank you all for at least having a little bit of humour with that. I think we can agree on that.
Maybe we'll start the same circuit again.
Do you believe that the department has made conservation of fish stocks a priority, or has it become a fishery management department rather than a conservation priority department?
Director, Policy and Programs, Coastal First Nations - Great Bear Initiative
It feels like the latter, for sure. The industry definitely provides a lot of their input into management to maximize the number of fishing days and the opportunities that are there to their fisheries.
Yes, I would say it's become more focused on the economic opportunity than on conservation.
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
When the integrated fisheries management plans and the Pacific Salmon Treaty—and DFO's ability to manage within those confines—were established maybe in the 1980s, there was a lot of fish to be found. There was not too much argument. Everybody had their piece of the pie, so to speak. Now that we find ourselves managing what's left, we are literally, I would say, in a place where people are fighting over what's left. That's not a place to be.
Socio-economics plays a big role in this. It is about the money. It is about the industry. It is about people's livelihoods, tackle shops and such, which Greg spoke to. We have to find out now that we can't eat money. It's time to abolish those rules and regulations that allow socio-economics to lead the way.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I have to try to get around the table to everybody.
We'll now go to Mr. Hardie for two and half minutes, please.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Ned, is there a role that the provincial government could be playing much more effectively, especially upriver?
Executive Director, Lower Fraser Fisheries Alliance
Absolutely. It's everywhere. I'll take a run at the province and I'll take a run at Canada, because all of them work in silos. You have ministries that do not collaborate in both the province and Canada—as much as I would like to see, anyway.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
All right. I appreciate that.
I have another question and a very short time. You've lit up the right thing for us here.
I've heard the word “fair” a few times with respect to access to the fishery. Mr. Russ, maybe you can comment on this—or Mr. Witzky.
Is part of the problem we have with an illegal fishery, particularly among indigenous communities, just a reaction to a lack of fair access to the fishery, particularly on the commercial side?
Mr. Witzky, maybe we'll start with you.
Executive Director, Fraser Salmon Management Council
I don't know if I can say a lot about the commercial side, but on the traditional interior fisheries that occur in the canyons, sometimes that's the only run they have. They don't have the big ocean with a whole bunch of mixed stocks. They'll fish when they need fish to feed their families. That's why it goes—
