Fisheries Committee on Feb. 1st, 2024

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] from my colleague, Mr. Kelloway, which was interesting because often DFO is the one that receives the blame for not pursuing charges.

Could you explain to the committee, so it's on the record, the process of who makes the decision on what cases will be prosecuted in the courts?

[Brent Napier]

Yes, absolutely. I think we referred to some of that process earlier. The Public Prosecution Service does.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

It's not DFO. I attend a lot of fisheries meetings and it's usually protection that hears from the fishers things like, “How come you're not doing this or that?”, so that's a valid point.

[Brent Napier]

They actually use two criteria, which are public interest and whether there's sufficient evidence in the case to hope for a successful outcome.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Based on that, could you provide the committee with the number of charges that were laid and how many of those charges actually ended up being prosecuted in the courts?

[Brent Napier]

We can provide that in writing.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay, I would appreciate that.

Could either of you explain to the committee the criteria that is currently used to train a fishery officer? I'm curious because I don't know the answer.

Has it changed over the years? How is a fishery protection and conservation officer trained today? Is there a difference from years ago?

[Brent Napier]

There has been a shift. It's 16 weeks, which has remained the same. That's for the initial basic training. We've moved from the RCMP, which used to conduct the majority of our training, to APA, which is the Atlantic Police Academy.

We have evolved many of the courses to reflect the modern nature of it and some of the circumstances we see. Modern tools and indigenous awareness are also a prominent element of it.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Is the department comfortable with the level of training that newer recruits have before they move into the field to begin enforcing the acts?

[Brent Napier]

Absolutely. The 16 weeks is basic training, and then they arrive at a detachment where they receive extra training accompanied by expert, experienced officers, etc.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Could you provide to the committee how many charges proceeded to court? Of those charges, how many resulted in prosecution of illegal activity and how many were dismissed?

[Brent Napier]

We can certainly look at that success rate, if you will. We can provide that in writing.

[Adam Burns]

Mr. Chair, if I could just add one point on that, with respect to the laying of charges versus successfully having them pursued in court, one of the things that C and P does in order to not overwhelm court time is work with the Public Prosecution Service and through a regional charge review committee that reviews the case report and works with the Public Prosecution Service to try to meet its information needs so that they can properly and adequately assess public interest and the likelihood of a successful outcome.

If the determination by the prosecutor is that it would likely be a negative, in many cases, charges won't be laid in order to avoid the frivolous laying of charges that wouldn't otherwise be pursued by the Public Prosecution Service.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I do not believe that the industry is fully clear on that, because it looks to DFO protection. They take all of the blame for none of these cases arriving in court, when it's not the department's decision or the minister's decision, but the prosecution's.

I have a final question. You may not be able to answer it.

Who decides the level of punishment in the courts? Is it DFO or is it a provincial...? Again, that is the second part. The industry complains that the penalty is not a deterrent for the crime.

[Adam Burns]

The maximum penalties are defined in the Fisheries Act, but it is the judge who makes the determination, through their ruling, of what the particular penalty will be.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

How often would they be reviewed?

Who sets the monetary value of the penalty? It wouldn't be in regulation, or would it?

[Adam Burns]

The maximum penalty is prescribed in the Fisheries Act.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

It's in the Fisheries Act. When was that last reviewed?

[Adam Burns]

The Fisheries Act was last amended in—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Not the act, but the penalty part.

[Adam Burns]

I'm not aware of when that piece was last reviewed.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Two and a half minutes is not much time.

I will continue along the same lines as my colleague.

You say that the penalties are set out in the Fisheries Act, which is a federal piece of legislation, but that the provinces determine the amount. Is that correct?

[Adam Burns]

The maximum amount is set out in the Fisheries Act.