Fisheries Committee on Feb. 6th, 2024

[Todd Williams]

We looked at a few things within the criteria.

First, were they listed as schedule 1 under regulations—batch 1, as we'd say—where we have those higher regulatory requirements to manage them, as per the fish stock provisions? That was one. Two, if not there, are they coming into what we think would be batch 2 when those get added to the regulation?

We also looked at the economic value of those fisheries. That's why we see lobster listed as a priority area. We also looked at the ecological significance of a stock, such as Atlantic mackerel as a forage species. We applied those criteria in our prioritization.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Mr. Williams.

We'll move on to our next member, Madame Desbiens, for two and a half minutes.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

My question is for Mr. Williams or Mr. Napier.

Considering that the fisheries are an ecosystem and that there are fish and humans in that ecosystem, there's a whole economy of scale to protect; there's sustainability, obviously, and the climate change variable. Sustainable fisheries are another consideration, so we want to protect the resource, as well as fishers' expertise. Let's assume it's all equal.

Would it be possible, in the short term, to take into account the relationship between the large volume of redfish in the gulf and the low fishing quota, in order to increase the quota and distribute it equitably among small boats? I say “short term” because the fishery will be open very soon and these people are facing uncertainty and a void.

Do you think that, in a context where human beings, families and children are awaiting their fate, things could be moved along a bit and a small risk could be taken that will not kill anyone? This risk will certainly not alter the resource and will at least enable these people to break even and make ends meet.

Do you think something along those lines can be considered in the short term? Is there no point in dreaming?

[Todd Williams]

Perhaps I can speak to that.

The minister had a very difficult decision with respect to the allocation of the redfish resource. Her decision did see a 20% reduction in the offshore, which was reallocated equally to an indigenous quota bank and affected shrimp harvesters in the gulf and the estuary. The other fleets' shares were protected. The inshore and midshore were protected and remained the same.

In terms of other short-term initiatives, I think that would be beyond the mandate of fisheries management per se.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

You have 20 seconds.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

What do you think of that answer, Commissioner? Have we reached the point of distress?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

I have no opinion on the substance of the decisions concerning that fishery, as we looked at the system as a whole and, as I said, we did not do an in-depth analysis on any specific fish stocks.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you.

We'll move on to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. DeMarco, I was elected in 2021. I haven't been around since 2015, as some of my colleagues have been. I'm curious to know how long you have been in the position of commissioner. How long have you been doing this work?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

My third anniversary was last week.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Okay. I'm trying to understand the history that brought us to this time.

You were referencing seven years. It must not be new to us that we need to accumulate data to better understand how to ensure our fisheries are sustainable. Were there recommendations similar to this made before? Is this something that's been going on for a while? It just helps my brain to understand what brought us to where we are today.

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

Yes. Even though you and I may be dating back to 2021 in terms of familiarity with this specific issue, our office, the Office of the Auditor General of Canada, reported on this issue in the late 1990s, as Mr. Normand mentioned, but most recently, before this past one, there was “Report 2—Sustaining Canada’s Major Fish Stocks”, from 2016. One of the predecessor commissioners in the Office of the Auditor General reported on this situation.

As I've mentioned before, it was disappointing for me to open this file and see how many similarities there were in both the issues that we are highlighting and also the recommendations we are making. It is frustrating to have to re-recommend on issues when we did a full audit of the issue only seven years prior.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

What's interesting to me is that clearly, based on the information we have, we know there have been consecutive governments that have not provided funding in this area that was adequate to ensure that we have the data required from different parties. I just want to highlight that. It is interesting.

My question is for you, Mr. Napier. Were you surprised by the results of this audit?

[Brent Napier]

No, I was not.

Being close to the program as well, I understood some of the challenges we've had over the years in terms of instituting it. I recognize the infrastructure challenges around the change of model in the program.

In 2013, the third party model changed from a co-funded model to an industry-funded model, and we had some growing pains and transition pains from that, as well as some recruitment and retention issues.

Actually, we welcomed some of the recommendations, and some were the same. We had taken some action. The national verification strategy was something we implemented after 2016. It was intended to be a deep dive into the program, a look not just at the recommendations but at the program as a whole and at how we can more effectively administer it.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Ms. Barron and Mr. Napier.

We're moving on now to Mr. Small for five minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We've heard some talk about electronic logbooks. I'm just wondering about the practical side of those. Perhaps, Ms. Mooney, you could talk to this one.

I'm sure you're quite familiar with the coastline of Newfoundland and Labrador, with Labrador especially being very remote and with many areas around the island of Newfoundland and Labrador and up the Quebec lower and north shore having very little cell coverage and whatnot. How would that data be transmitted for electronic logbooks? Would it be live or would you be waiting until the fishermen returned to the wharf?

[Jennifer Mooney]

Thank you for the question.

When harvesters enter the data into their logbooks, that information is submitted live to the department. When they enter a remote area where there is a lack of access, the data in the logbook is essentially locked. When a harvester enters an area where access is regained, that information is then sent to the department.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

So they wouldn't be relying on VMS or black boxes? A lot of the fleet—for example, the lobster and halibut fleet in Nova Scotia—doesn't use VMS. How would that look for them?

[Brent Napier]

Specifically with VMS, they don't have, as you mentioned, that access, but there are satellite provisions as well. In fisheries where timeliness is essential, there are satellite options. Those are, of course, what VMS uses, but as Ms. Mooney said, in cases where that transmission is not possible, that information is locked. C and P has been involved in that. We're satisfied there's continuity with that data, and when they reach an area where they can transmit, it's then transmitted to the department.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Do you think you'll have the logbook data back to 2020 analyzed before you start getting the new data flowing in from the electronic logbooks—for example, for northern cod?

[Jennifer Mooney]

I agree that the lack of timely catch data and information is a challenge. We need to have timely data for informing our fisheries' management decisions.

I'm not responsible for Newfoundland's regional licensing in terms of perhaps some of the gaps in entering information there, but that's why we need to have e-logs going forward.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you.

Lobster is a species on which very little scientific data exists. Catch data is very important, because it's basically all we have.

When you analyze lobster logbooks, how quickly can you pump out that data and do that analysis? We know there have been significant drops in most of southwest Nova Scotia and the Bay of Fundy this year. This could be catching them off guard. Are you analyzing the data fast enough so that you can give a forecast to these harvesters as to what they're facing?

[Jennifer Mooney]

Regarding lobster and crab, yes, that is a priority area for electronic logs this year, and all regions have plans to roll out mandatory....

Also, with respect to how we analyze the information, Quebec region, for example, is already gathering that electronic log information for lobster, so I would presume that is helping them inform their regional decisions.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, in light of what we've heard here today, the very concerning information from the commissioner and the team, I have a motion to move here. I sent it to the clerk and it's been translated, I believe, in both official languages.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

I believe the clerk is circulating it as we speak.