Fisheries Committee on Feb. 13th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you. We'll go right to the opening statement now by Ms. Gibbons for five minutes or less, please.

[Annette Gibbons, Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My officials and I are pleased to be here today with you—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Didn't we pass an amendment to the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We voted on the main motion.

[A voice]

No, we have to vote on the main motion.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

We didn't vote on the main motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'm sorry. That's my mistake.

[An hon. member]

You can apply.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Does everybody agree to apply the vote?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

We'll go back to you, Ms. Gibbons.

[Annette Gibbons]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The officials from the department and I are pleased to be here today.

I'll start by saying that Fisheries and Oceans Canada is committed to the conservation of American eel, with sustainability and orderly management being priorities for the elver fishery. This is an extremely lucrative fishery, Canada's highest value by weight, and as such it attracts significant illegal harvesting.

This happens in hundreds of rivers in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, often at night and often in isolated places that are not easily accessible. This makes it very difficult to monitor and fight illegal elver harvesting. It is also an easy fishery to get into with few barriers to entry. All that is needed is a dip net. There is no specialized training, vessels or other equipment.

There are vast, intricate and lucrative supply chains available following the point of harvest. Therefore, it's an extremely appealing species for those who are involved in this illegal activity. This presents compelling and challenging risks to conservation of the species and to public safety.

Inspections, observations and reports to Conservation and Protection indicate that significant quantities of elvers are being caught illegally. It is estimated that the total catch far exceeds the total allowable catch, compromising the conservation objectives of the American eel in Canada and threatening the conservation and protection of that population.

The elver fishery has become the scene of unacceptable behaviour: harassment, threats and violence among fishermen and towards fisheries officers, with a number of confrontations and violent incidents even posing an immediate threat to public safety and the management of this fishery.

Conservation and Protection and its law enforcement partners have received numerous complaints of violence, trespassing, property damage, weapons and organized crime offences, kidnapping and other significant public safety risks.

Faced with these unique and complex enforcement challenges, my department dedicated more fisheries officers to the commercial elver fishery in 2023 than we did for any other commercial fishery. We were pulling officers from other parts of the country to support our officers in the Maritimes, and obviously this isn't sustainable for so many reasons.

Ultimately, for the safety of our fisheries officers and the public and for the sustainability of the species, the elver fishery was closed in 2023 through a ministerial fisheries management order. This is the second time the fishery has been shut down in the past four years.

In recent years, numerous discussions between the department, licence holders and other stakeholders have demonstrated the need for new tools and approaches to effectively manage and control the elver fishery. In the absence of such changes, it is highly likely that the 2024 season will follow the unacceptable trend observed in recent years.

Since the closure last year, my department has been working with industry, first nations and other stakeholders to chart a path forward.

During the course of this review, the changes required became clear, including improved access for indigenous communities, a new regulatory framework to oversee and authorize the possession and export of elvers, and a series of operational changes in the management of the elver fishery. Many of the necessary changes rely on the adoption of new regulations, including the design and implementation of new traceability systems to track elver movements.

While we have made a great deal of progress in all three of these areas, we're not quite there yet.

For that reason, earlier today the minister wrote to current licence-holders, including indigenous organizations and first nations, to share her view that it is not possible to have a safe and sustainable elver fishery in 2024, and, therefore, the fishery should not be opened. The minister also invited licence-holders to share any relevant comments they may have to help inform her final decision.

Not opening the fishery this season would support law enforcement and conservation objectives in the near term and allow for the design and implementation of regulations, management measures and traceability tools to better control illegal and unauthorized harvesting in future years. Once the 10-day comment period is over and all input has been considered, the minister will make a decision on the fishery for 2024.

I am optimistic about what we can achieve through the co-operation of all those interested in this fishery, a combined focus on the conservation of this species, reconciliation and a collective commitment to safe and orderly conduct.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Gibbons.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for questions.

You have six minutes or less, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is, indeed, a very dark day for the fishery. This department and six ministers, in eight years, have mismanaged this fishery almost like no other. In 2000, you did a complete shutdown, as you're doing today, of the elver fishery because of poaching, because of illegal harvesting. The industry said how to fix it, and this department did nothing since then—absolutely nothing—to fix it.

Help me understand the rationale of a ministerial decision, and presumably a recommendation from the department to supports it, that thinks that taking the people who abide by the law off the river deters thousands of illegal, international, criminally financed harvesters who are poaching and destroying the fishery.

How does taking legal harvesters off the river help stop the poaching?

[Annette Gibbons]

At present, when there's an authorized harvest, in previous years, there is a mixing of the authorized harvest and the unauthorized harvest, which—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Unauthorized harvest.

[Annette Gibbons]

There is a mixing. There is a laundering that happens all along the supply chain at harvest and at various points of sale, which makes it very difficult to know what the authorized portion is. It makes it very easy for those acting illegally to carry on their activity without—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

With due respect, Deputy, that's just bunk. Every licensed harvester is assigned to a specific river with a specific DFO licence, with that on their nets. Everybody else who's not on those rivers is a poacher. It's easy to identify poachers. I do every night when this starts.

They're already fighting over river space. They're setting up nets now. You have just made it worse. The minister has just made it worse, and Mr. Wentzell has just made it worse, with a lack of ability to enforce the law.

I'll ask it again, because you didn't answer the question: How does removing the licensed elver fishers, who have a 9,000-plus kilogram TAC, when almost 100 tonnes of elvers are being poached and exported out of the Toronto airport—and your enforcement people know where all of that is coming from—stop poaching on the river? Just give a quick answer. How does it stop poaching on the river?

[Annette Gibbons]

Removing this capacity to launder does serve as a deterrent, to launder the illegal and legal harvest—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

How is that working out? It's growing by exponential proportions every year.

In 2020, you said that this would help; poaching doubled. In 2021, it doubled. In 2022, it doubled. It quadrupled last year, and you shut it down after 18 days.

Mr. Kerr, who works for your department, in April last year told the media that you had adequate policing resources to police the elver fishery, to enforce it. Did he lie to the media?

[Annette Gibbons]

I'm not going to comment on what Mr. Kerr—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

He's an employee of yours, isn't he? He runs C and P in Nova Scotia. It's a very widely known article in the Chronicle Herald, where he said that you had adequate enforcement resources.

[Annette Gibbons]

I understand. We put significant resources on the enforcement of this fishery.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It's so significant that we have thousands of poachers on the river who are now given free rein to go and do whatever they want, because you couldn't handle it over the last four or five years.

It didn't stop poaching in 2020. How is it going to stop poaching this year? What's the plan?

[Annette Gibbons]

This year, all of the harvest will be illegal. We will be out in full force enforcing the fishery.