Evidence of meeting #12 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was decisions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Deschênes. I've stopped the clock.
We will now move on to debate on the motion proposed by Mr. Deschênes.
Mr. Arnold, go ahead.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I appreciate Mr. Deschênes' approach on this, but because some of the witnesses he listed are scheduled to appear this coming Thursday, I'd like to amend the motion. Instead of saying, “at least three additional meetings”, it would say, “no more than two additional meetings”.
Liberal
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I thank my colleague for his motion.
I, for one, think we should take the time to consider the Fisheries Act very carefully.
Given all the news reports we've seen recently about the fishing industry, including questionable licence sales and business controls, where things aren't clear, I think we should keep the three meetings.
I would even suggest planning three meetings and, if necessary, adding another one. However, I agree that we should hold at least three meetings.
I know that a number of groups would like to come and testify before the committee to advocate for certain changes or to maintain certain provisions.
Obviously, I think it behooves us to take a very serious look at the Fisheries Act. That way, our committee will be able to make good recommendations at the end of this study.
Liberal
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We took the time to work out a timetable of what's left for meetings. Next week, we have the commissioner appearing. There would be five meetings remaining after that. If we have one of those meetings with the minister and officials and two more for the Fisheries Act review, it would leave one meeting to review version one of the redfish and lobster report and another to finish the redfish and lobster report. That is why we're suggesting keeping it at two meetings.
We can have the study wrapped up before the winter break and leave it with the analysts to draft version one for when we come back in January.
That's our proposal for the best use of time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Arnold.
(Amendment negatived: nays 5; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Mr. Deschênes, you have the floor for five minutes and 45 seconds.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I thank my colleagues for supporting this motion. I think we can work together to shed light on the situation and improve things. We want to make sure to protect the resource, to reward honest fishers who play by the rules and, finally, to enforce the Fisheries Act.
In a way, this is the outcome of the testimony we have heard, which was quite alarming and showed us that there was a problem with the application of the act.
My next questions will be on that very topic.
I'll start with you, Mr. Mallet.
We saw in a recent report that there was lobster trafficking, which was done in a very unsubtle way, as we understand it.
We have also heard testimony at this committee that fishery officers were not intervening.
What is your experience with fishery officers?
Have you ever asked for interventions?
If so, how did it go?
Executive Director, Maritime Fishermen's Union
Thank you for the question, Mr. Deschênes.
The Maritime Fishermen's Union, or MFU, and other associations, such as those represented by my colleagues here today, regularly report to fishery officers issues related to compliance with the Fisheries Act.
Our reports even get as far as the minister's office. We end up repeating ourselves on specific subjects. This includes out-of-season fishing by certain indigenous groups or individuals. That was mentioned in the news report. We've been reporting it for several decades.
Bloc
Executive Director, Maritime Fishermen's Union
We've seen a pattern of letting things slide. We are told every year that there will be closed door consultations and negotiations between the department and first nations, one band at a time. We have struggled—
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
I want to make sure we understand each other, Mr. Mallet. Is the department telling you that negotiations are going to be held?
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
The situation is actually clear. Food fishing is allowed, but not for commercial purposes.
The department tells you that it will negotiate, correct?
Executive Director, Maritime Fishermen's Union
Agreements are signed. Every year, we receive copies. We forwarded them to the journalists on the program Enquête. It is written in black and white that the food fishery products must not be sold or shared with non-indigenous people. However, that practice is tolerated.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
So the department is telling you that it is ready to discuss the subject and negotiate.
Is that correct?
Executive Director, Maritime Fishermen's Union
We're told every year that negotiations will be held to try to improve the situation. However, as long as there are no fines or consequences for those who continue to break these agreements, nothing will get done.
I say this from experience. We've been trying to change things for decades, and it's not happening.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
So it's to be understood that the problem is of a political nature. It is the department that agrees to discuss the application of the act.
Is that why fishery officers aren't intervening?
Executive Director, Maritime Fishermen's Union
I think the problem is entirely political.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you, Mr. Mallet.
Mr. Sproul, you're in the media today. I read an article about you in a Nova Scotia press review.
Can you hear me okay?
Can we stop the clock, Mr. Chair?
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
I'm sorry. The volume in the translation suddenly dropped.
It's okay now.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
You're in the media today, Mr. Sproul.
In the article, you describe a situation in Nova Scotia. Apparently, lobsters are being illegally traded.
I would like you to explain the situation to the entire committee. Trucks loaded with lobsters caught out of season leaving Nova Scotia were involved.
Is that correct?
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
Yes. Essentially, it's our firm belief that, at the highest levels of the Canadian government, there has been a conspiracy to prevent the application of fisheries and criminal law in southwest Nova Scotia. We've seen tractor-trailer load after tractor-trailer load of lobster leaving southwest Nova Scotia to go to processing plants in New Brunswick and elsewhere and, as well, across the border to go to China and to the United States, with zero interdiction of any of it by the government.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
How can you be sure that the lobsters in those trucks were caught illegally?
President, Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance
Well, after a decade of facing this activity, over the last number of years the Unified Fisheries Conservation Alliance engaged professional private investigative firms from outside Nova Scotia to investigate. Within a couple of months, they were able to gather enough evidence for us to move forward in a civil suit against lobster buyers within and outside Nova Scotia. We're suing each of them for $10 million, but it doesn't even begin to cover the losses for our members. However, the question the committee should ask themselves is why, if our private investigators were able to gather enough evidence to move successfully forward on a civil suit in a month, for 10 years, could the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the RCMP not bring anything to bear on this issue? Why have our communities been allowed to devolve into chaos and violence?