Evidence of meeting #25 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was objectives.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, National Programs, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It depends on which protected area. Of course, some of them were developed based on feedback from the harvesters themselves and based on existing restrictions for fisheries they wanted to benefit from, instead of starting anew with a new area.
We were looking at ecosystem features that we felt, in working with industry and indigenous harvesters, needed to be protected, but we were also recognizing that there are some critical fisheries that ideally should continue.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
There was buy-in from the inshore fishermen to stop bottom trawling because it was felt that bottom trawling was decimating the snow crab stocks. Is that correct?
Director, National Programs, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That's correct.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
What's the news about crab stock assessments today for 2J and 3K—those closed areas?
Director, National Programs, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would have to confirm the status of those stocks. Of course, they are part of the regular cycle of stock assessments.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
This is terrible news in areas that expected that closing bottom trawling would give positive results for snow crabs. There is a 78% recommended cut in the snow crab quota in area 3K, where the Funk Island Deep is, and a 60% cut in 2J. I had a message come in from a gentleman on Fogo Island just a few minutes ago.
We've had a lot of testimony here that said outcomes can't be measured. What do you think of this outcome for the snow crab, which was meant to be protected?
Director, National Programs, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Obviously, there are multiple objectives when restricting a particular type of fishing activity. There are objectives for the recovery of species and the protection of ecosystem features. We have to determine what the correlation is between the status of the stock and the protected area.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
These are not closed experiments like in a laboratory. There are quite a few variables.
Why not open up those two closed areas for cod fishing? Maybe the cod has had a bigger influence on the snow crab population than anything else, with predation. These areas are closed to the time-tested, proven, most ecologically friendly form of fishing that exists, which is longlining.
Will you advocate for opening these areas to cod fishing for longliners?
Director, National Programs, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think the key is to advocate for types of gear and solutions that allow fishing to continue where possible without having an impact on the ecosystem features and species you're trying to protect.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Mr. Gilchrist, a few minutes ago I heard you speaking of adjusting models. Is this a type of model you're willing to adjust?
With the demise of snow crab in 2J and 3K and an explosion in the cod stock, will you lobby the minister to adjust these closed areas for a more sensible approach to harvesting groundfish, to at least give some gear types access to areas where they don't have it now?
Director, National Programs, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think the department's focus is to try to make sure that if there are available options to support fisheries—where they can occur and will not have an impact on the targeted ecosystem features and species of a protected area—the department should be considering them. That's the approach.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
The 30 by 30 agenda was developed by the United Nations mostly to protect the waters surrounding third world countries, where they've been pillaged by multinational fishing fleets, but Canada's waters are protected. They're the most protected waters in the world. Including provincial regulations, they're protected by nearly 30 acts by provincial and federal governments.
Why did you not say to the United Nations when they tried to rope us into this, “Our waters are protected. Sorry, if you want to protect your waters, do what Canada has done”? Why can't you protect livelihoods and our ecosystem at the same time? Why is it such an attack on the livelihoods of fish harvesters?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I'm afraid I have to jump in again, because we're over time. If any of the witnesses would like to provide an answer in writing, that would be much appreciated.
With that, we are going to Mr. Klassen for five minutes.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you to the witnesses.
It feels to me like there's been a lot of fearmongering and misinformation out there, whether it comes from fishers or politicians—or who knows where this information comes from.
Ms. Graham, I think you mentioned that in the Northwest Territories, it was a 25-year process from the start of identifying an area to completion. Was that correct?
Director General, Marine Planning and Conservation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I was referring to the northern shelf bioregion, which is a process that started approximately 20 years ago.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
What would be the average time from the time that an area has been identified as a possible protected area until the final completion of that process? Can you just quickly explain the process we go through?
Director General, Marine Planning and Conservation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Establishing a marine protected area goes through five steps. Those five steps can take approximately five to seven years before it is a fully designated a marine protected area.
In the circumstance of the northern shelf bioregion, the length of time was associated with the fact that partners were coming together to talk about a network.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Can you identify or tell us approximately how many regions are being worked on for the west coast of British Columbia for Canada?
Director General, Marine Planning and Conservation, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
My colleague Anna Classen, who's from British Columbia, can speak to that.
Anna Classen Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We are currently contemplating a handful of potential site profiles, including offshore Haida Gwaii, the north coast fjords with the Gitxaala and Haisla first nations, and Kitkatla Inlet. Those are the site profiles we're currently contemplating.
We have—
Liberal
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, they are not. We're actively considering what the ecological priorities are and what fisheries are existing in the area.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
As the minister has stated on a number of occasions, we want to ensure that fish harvesting and the private, smaller individual families can carry on. In the west coast especially, we want to ensure that we bring back and retain as much of the fishing industry as possible.
I was happy to hear from you, Mr. Millar, that there is a place where the socio-economics of the marine protected areas and the fish harvesters can coexist. Can you talk a bit about that?
Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada Agency
Sure. I think the reference I made earlier was to the Gwaii Haanas national marine conservation area off the B.C. coast. Over a period of several years, we worked with fish harvesters and indigenous groups to design a management plan for the area. An advisory committee that was set up to steer that process included representation from the fishing industry, indigenous groups and other interested parties and experts. There was extensive consultation with industry and stakeholders to design a management plan that would take into account the reality of fishing as well as the conservation objectives, and then set out zones and measures that would not unduly impact the industry but would achieve the conservation objectives.
It took time. It took engagement from day one. At the end of the day, as I said, industry representatives wrote letters of support saying, “We think this is a good plan and it's one we can get behind. It won't undermine our economic sustainability, and it will achieve the outcomes we want to achieve.”
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
A lot of witnesses have come here saying that there isn't an opportunity for input, but you're telling us that there will still be opportunity for more input from fishers and fish harvesters and that boundaries can be changed if the impact is too great on the industry. I just want to reconfirm that I understood what you were saying.
Ms. Graham, perhaps you can respond to that.