Evidence of meeting #35 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was years.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Soo  Director General, Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Struthers  Director, Aquaculture Policy and Regulatory Affairs, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Volk  Director General, Environmental Science Services Directorate, Department of the Environment
Shahsavarani  Director, Emergencies and Marine Science Division, Department of the Environment
Gaudet  Regional Director General, Gulf Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Vézina  Regional Director General, Quebec Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC

You started out with a statement at the beginning of the meeting. You said that you identified potential sites of contamination. If those waste-water treatment sites had their standards applied, would those have been applied, and would it have reduced the potential sites that you have to identify?

5:25 p.m.

Director, Emergencies and Marine Science Division, Department of the Environment

Arash Shahsavarani

Mr. Chair, it would not have reduced the number of samples we would have to take in order to meet the standards to do exports to international markets.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC

I will turn the rest of my time over to Mr. Gunn.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC

Thank you, Mr. Arnold.

Mr. Struthers, could you give us a rough estimate of the value of aquaculture to the Canadian economy and, possibly, a breakdown by coast?

5:25 p.m.

Director, Aquaculture Policy and Regulatory Affairs, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Alistair Struthers

I can get back to you in writing on the exact numbers.

At the risk of running an error or giving you the wrong number, we will get back to you with a detailed breakdown.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC

Do you have a rough estimate of percentages—obviously, we are talking a lot about clams here—regarding salmon aquaculture as a proportion of the entire aquaculture industry?

5:25 p.m.

Director, Aquaculture Policy and Regulatory Affairs, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Alistair Struthers

It is a very significant amount. It is 70% to 80% of the overall value of the—

Aaron Gunn Conservative North Island—Powell River, BC

The reason I ask is that, obviously, there is a lot of concern in my riding. I am out in British Columbia. What is going on with the transition plan, I think, just generally.... Whether it is salmon or other forms of aquaculture, we need to ensure that decision-making at DFO is being driven by science, not politics and ideologies.

Do you have an update on what is going on with this transition plan and what I should be telling the 4,000 people wondering if they are going to have a job in six months?

5:25 p.m.

Director, Aquaculture Policy and Regulatory Affairs, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Alistair Struthers

The Government of Canada recognizes the importance of salmon aquaculture for the B.C. economy. On September 20, 2024, the government published a draft salmon aquaculture transition plan. This plan served as a basis for consultations and engagements. Since then, the government's interdepartmental task force has conducted over 120 engagements with first nations and stakeholders. The work has provided us with a deeper understanding of the industry and the regional economy, as well as diverse views on the transition.

The government is reviewing all the different perspectives and considering how it can best move sustainable aquaculture forward in British Columbia.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you very much, Mr. Gunn.

We are going to complete this panel with four minutes for Mr. Cormier.

Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us today.

I want to take the rest of my time to move a motion. It's not a surprise. The motion is on Atlantic salmon, which I put on notice a couple of weeks ago.

Would you like me to read it again, Mr. Chair?

I'd like to read it again, if I could. I believe the clerk has the motion on Atlantic salmon, which he can share with the committee members.

Is that okay?

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Yes, you can read it. The clerk has emailed it to all committee members.

There are some new members on the committee, so I think it would be good to repeat it, and people can read it at the same time.

Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB

That's great. Here's my motion.

I move that,

(a) the committee recognize that, (i) Atlantic salmon populations are in critical and ongoing decline in several rivers in New Brunswick, Quebec, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland and Labrador, (ii) Atlantic salmon is an iconic species essential to the balance of aquatic ecosystems and to the economic, cultural and social vitality of many coastal and indigenous communities, (iii) despite conservation efforts undertaken in recent years, salmon returns remain at historically low levels, (iv) the rapid and unprecedented growth of the striped bass population in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence, particularly in the Miramichi River, has resulted in increased predation pressure on smolts and juvenile salmon, raising serious concerns about the survival of Atlantic salmon in adjacent rivers, (v) predation by seal populations in eastern Canada is also a concerning factor affecting the survival of Atlantic salmon, both in estuarine environments and at sea, (vi) without timely and appropriate management measures regarding predator populations, this could compromise efforts to restore Atlantic salmon stocks; (b) pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake an urgent study of no more than four meetings on the decline of Atlantic salmon, with particular consideration given to the impact of the current striped bass population in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence and predation by seals, the available scientific data, existing management measures and concrete options that could be implemented rapidly to restore Atlantic salmon populations; (c) as part of this study, the committee invite to appear representatives from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, salmon conservation organizations, outfitting operators, recreational fishing guides, affected indigenous communities and independent scientists specializing in population dynamics; (d) the committee report its findings and recommendations to the House; and (e) pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request the government to table a comprehensive response to its report.

Mr. Chair, this study is extremely important, not only to me but especially to the people who have been trying to save this species for many years. In my region and across New Brunswick, Quebec, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labrador, Atlantic salmon is not just a species of fish, but a part of our identity. It's been in our DNA and our culture for hundreds of years.

Take fly-fishing for Atlantic salmon as an example. This fishery supports the local economy. It brings visitors from around the world. It sustains outfitters, guides and local businesses. It creates jobs in rural regions. When we talk about salmon, we're also talking about livelihoods.

I've been fishing salmon for 25 years. I've had the opportunity to fish in rivers all over New Brunswick, Quebec, Newfoundland and Nova Scotia, and I can tell you that the experience changes your life. It is a tradition that is passed down precisely because of the nature around us, our rivers and the land.

What we are seeing today, Mr. Chair, is deeply concerning. The Atlantic salmon population is in critical decline. Returns are historically low. At the same time, we are seeing increased pressure on this species, including from the rapid growth of the striped bass population, for example, in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence, and particularly in the Miramichi River, as well as from predation by seals. Of course, there are a lot of other factors.

We can't stand idly by. If the salmon disappear, Mr. Chair, we wouldn't just lose the fish; we would lose the jobs and the traditions that are part of our culture and our history. We've been doing this for a hundred years. Therefore, I think this study is very important. It's essential.

I would like the majority of committee members to move forward with this study and find solutions to help the salmon population, which I feel is an iconic Canadian species.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

I will confirm for committee members that this was put on notice a couple of months ago in order for this to be moved.

We have folks who want to get involved in debate, but I first want to confirm with members that they're in agreement that we can excuse the witnesses while we continue this debate.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Great.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today and for taking the time to meet with us to provide your testimony on this study, which will help inform the recommendations. I would note that there were a few requests for some follow-up information on the monitoring and mapping. If there is other information you can share with the committee, that would be much appreciated in terms of our finalizing that report.

With that, thank you very much for your time today.

We are keeping a speakers list on the motion. I have Monsieur Deschênes first.

Next, we'll go to Mr. Arnold.

Mr. Deschênes, you have the floor.

Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC

I welcome my colleague Mr. Cormier's motion. It's a great idea, and I support it. I would ask the clerk to immediately send you a few amendments that I propose.

I grew up in Cascapédia—Saint-Jules, right near the Grande Cascapédia River. It's a legendary salmon river. I've seen the importance of this fishery to the culture, as my colleague was saying.

I applaud the initiative of this study on the decline of salmon and the fact that, together, we can find ways to protect the species, our culture and our economy. I recently had a discussion with Pierre D'amours, who is a well-known guide in the Restigouche River area. He was telling me about the importance of striped bass, particularly in the river, and made a suggestion to consider a commercial fishery for striped bass. We'll see if we can get there.

The purpose of the amendments that I am proposing and that have been sent to you is to have a study that is as broad as possible on the potential causes of the decline of Atlantic salmon. We are actually seeing striped bass. Many people would see that as the factor. We see seals. People think they are the ones eating the salmon. However, we can see that, in areas where there are no striped bass or seals, there is still a decline in Atlantic salmon.

In this study, I propose assessing what is happening in the Strait of Belle Isle, between Quebec and Newfoundland, because we know that there will be runs. Some salmon will go as far as Greenland. The Fédération québécoise pour le saumon atlantique thinks that that is where there is a high mortality rate.

I therefore move that the motion be amended by adding the following after the word “Labrador” in subparagraph (a)(i): “including throughout the Gulf of St. Lawrence and the Strait of Belle Isle region”.

After subparagraph (a)(iv), I propose that a new subparagraph be added as follows: “(v) the decline is also observed in areas where striped bass are scarce or absent, such as in the Strait of Belle Isle, underscoring the importance of examining mortality factors during marine and estuarine migration more broadly,”.

In paragraph (b), I propose to delete the word “particular” and the words “the available scientific data” and, after the word “seals”, add the following: “as well as general conditions, mortality factors during migration and available scientific data throughout the Gulf of St. Lawrence and the Strait of Belle Isle”.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you, Mr. Deschênes.

Mr. Deschênes proposed an amendment. All committee members will receive it by email. I know there are a lot of changes.

We will now debate the amendment.

Mr. Arnold, you had your hand up. Would you like to speak to this?

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC

No, not on this.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Okay.

We'll go to Mr. Cormier, who I think wants to speak on the amendment of Mr. Deschênes.

Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I completely agree with the changes proposed by my colleague Mr. Deschênes. We'll certainly study this and hear from witnesses anyway, but these changes strengthen the motion. Therefore, I support the changes proposed by my colleague Mr. Deschênes.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

Are there any other comments?

With that, are we in agreement with the amendment from Mr. Deschênes?

(Amendment agreed to)

We have agreement around the table. The motion is now amended accordingly.

With that, we're going to go back to the speakers list. I have Mr. Arnold and then Mr. Small.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC

Thank you Mr. Chair. I'd also like to make a further amendment to the motion. I'd have to look closer to see where it should fit in.

I move:

That the motion be amended by adding, at the end of paragraph (c), the following “, and that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans be invited at the beginning of the study, to update the committee on actions taken in response to the report of the committee on wild Atlantic salmon in eastern Canada tabled in January 2017, as well as the reports of the committee on striped bass in the Southern Gulf of St. Lawrence and Miramichi River tabled in May 2019, November 2020, and February 2022.

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you very much, Mr. Arnold.

We do have, as part of this motion, a request to have representatives from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans appear. It's in there already.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC

It's in there already, but I would like specifically for them to report on actions taken in response to the recommendations in those two reports. The second report on striped bass is report number one from the committee in the 43rd Parliament.