Foreign Affairs Committee on June 14th, 2006

[Eric Faustin]

It was; in 1987 the ratio was one for nine. Now it's a ratio of one for three, in such a way that a Haitian Canadian organization that wants to support a project in Haiti has to work harder to find more money and to give a lower level of help to Haiti.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

I'm not sure whether this is in your mandate at all, but you identified that there are 3.4 million Haitians, two-thirds of whom are underemployed or unemployed.

You've been working in training and development on mini and micro projects. Obviously, with mini and micro projects, and service industry types of projects too, to capture and to recover and fully employ the fully one-third of Haitians who need employment, it would have to go to the private and industrial sectors. There has been some movement there, with companies such as Gildan Activewear, with 4,000 to 5,000 jobs.

Would you care to comment on whether your organization is doing anything to encourage the private sector, and whether CIDA funding should be considering that civil development can only proceed when it necessitates business development?

In other words, there is a discussion in other committees too whether some effort shouldn't be given towards part of this funding that develops the economy and develops a micro industry also being utilized to encourage major industry.

[Eric Faustin]

I'm going to answer in French because I'm more comfortable in that language.

The private sector's effort must indubitably be considered. However, every effort must be made to find all available resources in order to improve employment conditions in Haiti. The Haitian private sector is one of those resources, but the informal sector, for the moment, still offers the largest number of jobs. That's what has enabled the Haitian economy and the population to survive. Whether or not these are farming jobs, ROCAHD wants to ensure that, in giving aid to Haiti, we're not exclusively helping the private sector to the detriment of the community sector.

[Elena Alvarado]

Can I briefly add something, please?

We're talking about the private sector, and I can tell you that businesses almost completely disappeared in Haiti during the years of insecurity and violence. They were ravaged. Most of the infrastructure is now obsolete. Reinvestment is necessary in that area. For example, there are engineers who are working as drivers.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

But Gildan is growing. It's one company that is growing.

[Elena Alvarado]

Yes. It's a good thing. But now, for the moment, it's only....

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Goldring.

Madame McDonough.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Very briefly, I'm trying to get a better understanding

of the Regroupement des organismes canado-haïtiens pour le développement.

I'm trying to get an understanding of whether we're talking here about separate NGOs that have grouped together under an umbrella, and whether there is a governance structure for those organizations that is Haitian-based, or whether there is a Canadian basis for that structure. That's my first question.

Rather than maybe spending a lot of time of the committee, if you had some background information you might provide us with that, so we can get a sense of both the scope of the projects and the size of the projects, the numbers of people employed, and so on. I'm interested in trying to understand as well what the profile is in terms of Haitians in the diaspora here in Canada involved in this enterprise and who have returned, or are in the process of returning, versus Haitians who haven't left the country.

That leads me to a related question. You hear a lot of talk about the importance of assistance from the diaspora. I'm wondering if you can give us some understanding of whether there are any tensions around that, whether there is any sense in which people who have left the country—perhaps during some of these very difficult times—and had an opportunity to develop businesses, or pursue education, or whatever, are now in the position of being encouraged to come back to assume possibly leadership positions in educational institutions, in various enterprises, whether they're non-governmental or business-related. And I want to know whether this is a source of any frictions and tensions or whether there is really quite a welcoming and congenial kind of partnership that surrounds the kinds of projects you're both describing.

[Eric Faustin]

There are two questions.

First, ROCAHD is an umbrella organization. Within this umbrella organization you will find associations of doctors, of nurses, and of engineers, teachers associations, and a lot of local associations, people from different parts of Haiti who regroup themselves and want to involve themselves in projects in their own areas, where they come from, on a community basis.

There is a list of Haitian groups in Canada that was compiled by CSE International in 2004. They listed about 120 Haitian organizations in Canada. Most of them are locally oriented. They want to help Haitian people in Canada. About 60 of them want to get involved in development projects in Haiti.

Within those 60 organizations, we regroup 36 of them. That means ROCAHD is mainstream, where you'll find most Haitian Canadian organizations that want to help in Haiti. That's the first thing.

As to the second question, how Haitian people welcome or what's their relationship with the diaspora, there is a mixed reaction. The diaspora is helping Haiti. All over the world, it is helping Haiti at the level of $1.3 billion a year. Without that help, Haiti would crumble--period. People want to rent a house, send their kids to school, buy food, and pay the electricity bill. They count on relatives who are in Canada, or the States, or France, or all over the world as well, to help them to afford to live on a day-to-day basis.

Still, even in the constitution of Haiti, it's closed. It excludes Haitian people who have taken citizenship in another country. Haitian Canadians cannot be elected at any level in Haiti. So there is a mixed reaction.

If you want to go back to Haiti to create a business to help people, they will welcome you with open arms, but if you want to get involved in politics, they kind of judge you as illegitimate since you have been away from the country. There is a mixed reaction.

[Elena Alvarado]

There are around 2 million Haitians outside of Haiti, and there is a

Haitian Minister of Foreign Affairs. For example, a number of our voluntary advisors are Haitian. I believe they're well received in most cases. However, they are permanent residents. They don't have Canadian citizenship.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

I want to thank both organizations, both groups, for coming here today.

Just very quickly, though, I would like to ask a question.

You mentioned that your three-year agreement with CIDA had been extended. When does it expire?

[Eric Faustin]

It should expire on June 30 of this year. We are expecting a prolongation, an extension to December, because we are in a process of organizational review to try to focus on what are the best opportunities for development and what are the best opportunities for us to work in Haiti. We are in the process of evaluation, before we submit a program to CIDA for the next three years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You also mentioned in your testimony that Canada has deported criminals to Haiti, individuals who have been charged, sentenced, and deported. Do you have the number of criminals who have been sent to Haiti from Canada?

[Eric Faustin]

I don't have the figures up to now. I called the Haitian consulate yesterday to get the exact figures. But before I worked in international development, I used to work in a Haitian community centre, and at that time, the figure was about 800 criminals who were targeted to be sent back to Haiti from Canada.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That happens every year?

[Eric Faustin]

No, a total figure of 800 people.

I've been away from the community centre since 1999, and I don't have the up-to-date figures now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

But you're saying it's not in Haiti's best interest to have them sent to Haiti.

[Eric Faustin]

Right now, no, because they don't have the capacity to deal with that. Those criminals are considered as the blue collar criminals in Haiti. They know how it works.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you so much for being here.

We will suspend for a minute or two and have committee members stay. We have a couple of motions to deal with and a little committee business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Let's bring this back to order.

I intend that this meeting not take very long. We did want to do some committee business. There are basically three things on your agenda for committee business. The first is notices of motion from Madame Lalonde; the second is the report from the subcommittee on agenda and procedure, which is our steering committee. The clerk instructs me that we could probably go in camera on the third thing. It deals with the proposed budget for potential travel, which may be only wishful thinking on the part of some in a minority government.

Madame Lalonde, you have brought two motions forward. Would you address your motions, please?

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Chairman, as regards the one on the weapons trade, we could wait until next Tuesday. Then we'll be hearing from the representatives of OXFAM. We could ask them all the questions we want. Does that suit you?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. We can put the motions off until Tuesday. We'll deal with the other in the second report.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Then let's adopt it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

So next Tuesday we'll look at the notices of motion.

The second part of the committee business deals with the subcommittee on agenda and procedure, the steering committee....

Oh, you want to do the second motion.

Madame Lalonde, to speak to the second motion.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I introduced this motion in the wake of the report we worked on. If you remember, we hoped to have a unanimous position and to secure the cooperation of both parties.

At the time, we had discussed the fact that Canada was giving direct aid to Ethiopia, but giving nothing to Eritrea. However, Lloyd Axworthy, who has never been my idol and who was no longer a member of the Liberal Party, had been appointed by Kofi Annan as the intermediary between Eritrea and Ethiopia to try to have Ethiopia accept the border established by a UN committee. By its signature, Ethiopia had originally agreed to respect the border. Lloyd Axworthy had tried to intervene, but was unable to do so. He mentioned to this committee—I read it in his report— that he found it strange that CIDA provided direct aid to that country, without pointing out to its representatives that Ethiopia had undertaken to respect the borders. At the time, I tried to have that added to the motion, but we did not agree on that point.

Today, I know that Mr. Obhrai will be introducing an amendment, because I was unaware of one piece of information. He told me that Canada was no longer providing direct aid to Ethiopia, like Great Britain and other countries, in view of the democratic and other problems that Ethiopia has experienced. Aid is going through the United Nations, but no longer through Ethiopia. He will therefore read an amendment to the motion with which I agree. However, the motion calls for the committee to ask Canada to provide more assistance to Eritrea, not directly, but through the World Food Program.

That would complete the motion because we've discussed it on a number of occasions. We wanted the motion to reflect the idea of helping both countries come to an agreement and to treat them fairly. That was the spirit in which we intended it.