Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 19th, 2006

[Janet Graham]

The resolution makes reference to a previous resolution to the African Union Mission taking responsibility on the flights. There are sanctions in place against individuals, which Canada has--

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Which have also not been enforced.

[Janet Graham]

No, they have been enforced.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

One person has been named, that's it, and the reference with regard to those...there are several different resolutions. In fact, on the whole, those resolutions have not been enforced. I'm sorry to say that's the record. You can check the record on those.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Those are resolutions from the UN, is that correct?

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

UN Security Council resolutions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

They passed, but have not been enforced, is what he's saying.

[Wendy Gilmour]

There are many different Security Council resolutions, over time, that are not fully implemented. Frankly, returning to the earlier question from our chairman, the key is to try to work collectively with all of the countries that we can to bring pressure on the Government of Sudan so that it lives up to its responsibilities and to make sure the international community is ready with the resources necessary to implement the resolution when it becomes effective. So if the key is that we are, for example, in 1590 or 1591, and I'm sorry I always forget the difference between the two, but one dealt with the original sanctions and the other one dealt with the original mandate of UNMIS.... One of those resolutions, for example, provides for an arms embargo into the specific region of Darfur. The African Union has been trying, within their means and capabilities, to implement that resolution. It requires a complete monitoring of the border with Chad. That's obviously an impossible task. Even with all of the resources available to the Government of Canada and the United States, we can't monitor completely our own border, so look at the difficulties inherent in an operation in a place like Darfur with the resources they have available.

It is incumbent upon us to do the very best job we can with the resources we have at our disposal and to work collectively with our partners to bring the pressure on the Government of Sudan and the other parties that they will adhere to. That's why we return to our efforts with the Arab League, with the other African states, that are the ones who have proven the most effective at getting the Government of Sudan to agree to what it needs to do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you both.

We'll go to the government side, to Mr. Van Loan, please.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Thank you very much.

I want to pick up a little from the theme that Mr. Cotler was presenting, and that's the challenge of enforcing these UN resolutions. I think the world is suffering a bit from a lack of policemen to enforce UN resolutions, and the United Nations Security Council and the United Nations, in general, are at risk of looking powerless around the world by an inability to implement the resolutions. We have in Afghanistan a whole series of resolutions that are unanimous. All the countries, all of them, endorse the presence there, yet we know daily that there's not enough in terms of resources. In fact, only NATO has stepped up to the plate with a dozen other countries, notwithstanding the sheer unanimity of the world on the importance of that mission as expressed at the United Nations.

UNIFIL had trouble raising the forces they needed in Lebanon, getting the numbers they needed, and there's a lot of skepticism, both in Afghanistan and in Lebanon, about whether some of the folks there are going to be robust enough--they use this term--or willing to actually do what it takes to implement the wording of the resolution. So it was in that context, obviously, that one looked to Sudan and having the African Union there, and that was a very good thing, and they had significant numbers there. It's not that there weren't significant numbers, there were significant numbers, but what we're hearing clearly is that this effort has not succeeded.

I want your thoughts on what that says and why it is that the African Union, with their presence there, has been unsuccessful in implementing it, and whether we are again falling back into the same handful of countries carrying the heavy burden. If they don't step up, do you end up with ineffectiveness in enforcing these resolutions?

[Janet Graham]

The African Union, in fact, was established in 2001. It's a very new organization. They have never done anything like this before. I must say, I was struck the first time I went to their headquarters in Addis Ababa to meet with the peacekeeping section how few of them there were and how hard they were trying to put things together. They stepped up to the plate when nobody else would and they have done a remarkable job, but they lack a history, a background, and the resources to do much more than they already have done.

Wendy, did you want to...?

[Wendy Gilmour]

I think that's entirely right. UN peacekeeping is in its 50th year. We're in the anniversary year at the moment, and we and our other partners--the UN Secretariat, the Department of Peacekeeping Operations, and UN troop contributors--are still working to improve their operations. If they're at the fifth level, the African Union is still at the beginning of their experience in these types of things.

You could not ask for a more complicated situation than the one we have in Darfur right now where you have a significant humanitarian effort, the need for a significant diplomatic effort, and a development effort. You have a police mission working concurrently with a military mission, all requiring the types of command and control and coordination arrangements that the most sophisticated organizations have trouble with.

So when we say the African Union is doing a good job with the resources it's been given, given its experience with the types of troops and the equipment that's on the ground, it's doing as good a job as we can possibly hope it to do. We are constantly working to try to improve it and to set the groundwork for an efficient transition to a UN mission. But it's important that we don't think the transition to a UN mission is going to fix the situation overnight. It's not. It will continue to be an evolutionary process until the parties themselves live up to their own responsibility.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Do I understand it properly that your mission rolls into the UN mission, so a lot of the same troops would still be there, just under a different command?

[Wendy Gilmour]

That's the idea right now. There is a tradition already established in a number of different situations where a regional organization that has commanded a peace operation on the ground has transitioned into a UN-commanded mission. For example, the multinational interim force in Haiti that we deployed in 2004 transitioned into a UN mission after six months on the ground, and many of the same forces rehatted, literally took off their MIF hat one day and put on a blue one the next. The initial Canadian troops that were there did exactly that.

The ECOWAS force in Liberia, West Africa, transitioned into a UN force. So that's what we're planning to do in AMIS.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Do you hope that by merging the AU forces with the UN, with all that experience, that can become a training ground to help the AU? Are they going to stay under the peacekeeping auspices of the African Union to learn and build?

[Wendy Gilmour]

The peace operations force--the military and the police and the diplomatic efforts--are commanded by the AU at the moment. The UN will have a unified system--chain of command, command and control systems--in place so that UN officials will be commanding the forces.

But Canada is developing another program at the moment, the global peace operations capacity-building program, where we're working with the African Union to develop its long-term capacity to manage these types of operations. We anticipate a number of the AU officers and experts currently working in AMIS will stay on with the UN, and then we'll put programs in place to try to capture that experience and build it up within the AU itself.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Madam Gilmour.

Mr. Dewar.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I was listening with keen interest to your report before I subbed in for my colleague, Ms. McDonough. I share her sentiment that it's important to know and understand what is happening, because so many people are concerned that there isn't enough being done, and we can agree to that. But it's also important to understand what's being done if we're going to help and make a difference globally. So I want to start off by thanking you for letting us know what is going on and about some of the positive things that are happening.

You mention supporting AMIS, and that's critical. You also mentioned something...and for a second I want to talk about the regions within Sudan. There are eight regions in Sudan, but you also suggest there are nine, when you consider what's happening in Chad. If you look at the fact that this isn't just secluded, if I can say that, to Darfur or to Sudan, I would have concerns about spillover.

We've seen the same problems and concerns happening within the past couple of weeks in other places in Africa. I'm wondering if you want to comment on the concerns you might have with that phenomenon of spillover, the fact that this isn't contained within the neighbours...and many people don't understand that, perhaps. I've given Chad as an example. If you could just comment on what the effects are, not just on Darfur but on neighbours and in a specific instance, Chad, and the relationship Chad plays.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Madam Graham.

[Janet Graham]

Thank you. The situation on the border, in particular with Chad—but there are nine countries that bound Sudan—is particularly difficult. The border is not in the middle of nowhere, but it is in a very remote area, and Chad is not particularly stable either. There is rebel movement back and forth on both sides, and there are tribal issues that the border cuts through that impact on all of this conflict.

There is a Tripoli agreement that is supposed to set the conditions for reinforcing the border to build confidence-building measures between groups on both sides, but all of this has been left, I think, because the conflict in Darfur does not allow for the kind of work that needs to be done within the tribal groups that cross over on the border.

A positive development recently was that there was a kind of renewed dialogue—I don't know whether it was renewed, or how long they have been separated—between the Chad government and the Sudanese government. The presidents met; they have discussed these issues. It is a step in the right direction, but this is a conflict that will take a stronger force in there to work on the issues the Tripoli agreement has established, to build the confidence to monitor the border, so that the back-and-forth rebel groups can be at least held at bay.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Just following up on some of your comments about how we can best help the African Union, my understanding is—I brought this up in debate, and we certainly questioned the government on it—that presently they are threadbare, and that's not news, and that one of the things we can do in the transition period is provide more direct assistance to the African Union.

Is it correct that presently they are dependent upon the Sudanese government for dispensing pay and resources, or is it right now being flowed entirely through the international community? I am hearing—and there's lots that's happening—that presently, as far as you know and understand the African Union and the commitment made to them, they are receiving, if I can say it thus, their paycheques and their resources, and they aren't.... I know there are some problems in getting resources through, and that they are sometimes logjammed, but is there presently an ask from them for more resources, and is there something we can do about that very straightforwardly?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

There are two questions there: is there a logjam, and—

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

And have we been asked, or has the African Union asked, for more resources directly?

[Wendy Gilmour]

First of all, there is not a logjam in our provision of resources to the African Union, but the logistics and the structures that are in place that would ensure a free flow—a free pipeline, our development colleagues would call it—of resources into the field are not always straightforward.

Some of this is due to the situation on the ground and some of it is due to the bureaucratic inefficiencies that are inherent within AU structures themselves. We are working with them to fix that. In fact, maybe Laurent can provide some of the details of what we are doing to try to help on contracting, for example.

[Laurent Charette, Director, Malawi Program, Canadian International Development Agency]

CIDA is managing a lot of the contracts for the helicopters and the fixed-wing aircraft and the fuel on behalf of the African Union and Foreign Affairs. We have constant communications with the African Union.

I would say that some of my colleagues also have developed personal relationships with some of the key people in the African Union to develop the advisers we need. The big problem frequently, when we work with this type of organization, is to develop credibility, so that when we are giving advice, this advice might be received positively.

We have developed, I would say, as much as possible a very good relationship. Some other countries are even looking at us to help them develop the same type of credibility we have developed with the African Union.

CIDA is not perfect, but we can say that each time the African Union has asked for something from Canada in terms of support, we have been there with the money, but we have also been there with the advice required to help them do their job.