Evidence of meeting #29 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was assistance.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Mr. Wallace.
Madame St-Hilaire is next for seven minutes.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Verdon and Mr. Wallace, I will follow up on the questions of my colleague, Mr. McKay. In my humble opinion, he's been very kind to you since, as I understand it -- and please correct me if I'm wrong --, you do not want this bill to go forward. However, in your presentations, you were both -- I'm trying to be kind -- very vague and somewhat fuzzy. Perhaps it's because we did not get your presentation in writing but you repeated several times that the bill is unclear and open to interpretation. When you want a bill, you offer practical suggestions to improve it. When you don’t want it, you just say it’s vague.
I just want to remind you, as well as my colleagues, that some time ago, the present prime minister wanted international aid to be entrenched in legislation.
Many people have issues not only with the amounts given as international aid but also with the transparency and effectiveness of aid. As representatives of CIDA, you say you don’t want this bill because it’s vague, but you’re not offering any suggestions to amend it, make it better and let Canada have some aid legislation.
This is what I want you to comment about.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Policy Branch, Canadian International Development Agency
Thank you for your comments.
We would like to take a constructive approach to this bill. The identification of some issues will make it easier to see where it's possible to improve it. We are continuing our analysis of Bill C-293 from a technical perspective. It's up to committee members to suggest amendments to the bill but we would be very happy to share our technical analysis with you if this can be helpful to the committee.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
But does CIDA wish to have this kind of legislation?
4:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Policy Branch, Canadian International Development Agency
The Agency has explored several avenues relating to a legislative mandate. In the last few months, the review of aid effectiveness was one of our priorities. We already mentioned that this file has four elements. Some of these elements can clarify others which can be pursued later on at the legislative or policy level. During the past few months, our action was focused on strengthening aid effectiveness, but it is obvious that we will also explore legislative options.
We have conducted both national and international analyses that will feed into this process.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
You are surely aware that if it is not part of a legislative framework, it is difficult for Parliament to know exactly what is happening with international aid.
4:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Policy Branch, Canadian International Development Agency
Parliament has many accountability tools. The Minister of International Cooperation, who appeared before the committee three weeks ago, discussed with you CIDA’s report on plans and priorities that was tabled in Parliament as well as a detailed report on activities and outcomes. This is only one of many tools available to Parliament to ensure and strengthen the transparency of the aid program.
The minister also announced that she would table in Parliament early in 2007 the first annual report on development outcomes. This was not a legislative action but it was focused on transparency and accountability to Parliament and this committee, according to CIDA’s report on plans and priorities.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
You have another minute and a half, Madame St-Hilaire.
Madame Barbot, would you like to go ahead?
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC
Mr. Wallace, as I understand it, the fact that the minister will act anyway does not diminish the relevance of the bill.
I want to ask Ms. Verdon a question relating to poverty reduction, which is one of the criteria included in the bill. You said that the requirement to consult is problematic. What exactly do you mean?
4:05 p.m.
Senior General Counsel, Legal Services Division, Canadian International Development Agency
I did not say much about the poverty reduction goal. I simply mentioned that it was one of the objectives of the bill. You are talking about the requirement to consult.
4:05 p.m.
Senior General Counsel, Legal Services Division, Canadian International Development Agency
This is a requirement. A possible interpretation would be that before making a decision -- and God knows hundreds if not thousands are made each year -- to provide development assistance, consultations must take place beforehand. The consultation process can be quite demanding. Moreover, it has to include civil society and international agencies.
This provision is incomplete. It excludes several stakeholders such as foreign countries and provincial governments, in case we wish to consult them. According to this provision, the definition of the people to consult is somewhat narrow.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC
Can you suggest a way to include poverty reduction? Or do you think this criterion is not at all relevant?
4:10 p.m.
Senior General Counsel, Legal Services Division, Canadian International Development Agency
A way to include poverty reduction in the consultation process?
4:10 p.m.
Senior General Counsel, Legal Services Division, Canadian International Development Agency
This is a good question. Would the consultation process be aimed at taking into account the perspectives of the poor or at reducing poverty? The bill has several criteria. Would it be aimed at making sure that the assistance is consistent with the principles of sustainable development? I am not sure. According to the provision, the requirement to consult is very general.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
November 21st, 2006 / 4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Before I ask my question, I would like to tell the Bloc members here that the responsibility of a bill, an amendment, and everything falls on the government, not on the agency. The agency implements that, so for you to go ahead and ask them why you didn't comment on it.... It's our responsibility.
It's also quite interesting that for the last thirteen years the Liberals were in power here, they never brought out any legislation or anything to do that. Now, suddenly, they're coming out with this legislation, and yet for thirteen years, with four CIDA ministers that have gone through, never once did the Liberals come out with anything.
4:10 p.m.
Some hon. members
[Inaudible--Editor]
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
It's my floor. Let me talk. When you were talking, I was not challenging you.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Thank you.
I just wanted to make that point, that it's a government responsibility, and it's not for an agency to do that.
But let me just—
