Foreign Affairs Committee on May 30th, 2006

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

I thank you, Mr. Van Loan, for the question. I know you've just come from a conference at which this was very much the subject of discussion; that is, how we keep the international community front and centre in the effort, how we remind them that anything less right now will be another failure. It will result in Haiti again sliding into a state of chaos and lawlessness.

There are a number of occasions on which Canada can make that point, as you did in Brazil. There's the conference that's happening in the Dominican Republic this weekend, which I will attend. All of the major players will be there. Unfortunately, because of some of the internal disputes that were going on within Brazil and some other international events, many countries were perhaps not as well represented as they could have been. But there's this coming conference of the OAS in the Dominican Republic, as well as the International Pledge Conference in July, which may take place in Port-au-Prince or, depending on circumstances, may happen in Washington. That is the best forum, I would suggest, for Canada to not only show leadership in demonstrating that we are there for the Haitian people for the period of time that is required, but encourage others to similarly step up, put their money on the table, demonstrate in a tangible way that they are going to be there, and make the commitments that will be required in the short term and the long term.

Let me come back just for a moment to Mr. Goldring's point about economic development. It's only through that type of investment—and companies like Gildan Activewear are a perfect example—that Canada can also encourage the type of economic stability that's going to result. But they are co-dependent, because companies naturally will be reluctant to invest in a country where there is lawlessness and a high crime rate and risk.

That's another sad reality. Much of the natural beauty of what was once a beautiful Caribbean island has now, because of political circumstances, but because of the raping and pillaging of the resources of that country, been destroyed.

If you look by contrast at the Dominican Republic, which was not that long ago in relative world history the lesser of equals on that island, you see how tourism has flourished, how investment by large travel companies and Canadians and other business interests has flourished.

There is a very tragic dynamic in this shared island. Haitians only need to cast their eyes to the country with which they share the island to say, look at what can happen; look at how things could be and should be for us.

So back to your point, I think Canada has to continue to make intelligent and thoughtful interventions at these conferences to say why we're there, certainly expressing our commitment and encouraging others to follow suit.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Madame McDonough.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to say how much I appreciated the opportunity to go to Haiti just before Préval's inauguration. I learned a great deal. I had some of my concerns reinforced and I changed my mind about some things. Hopefully that's what we all do when we go on a trip like that.

I have so many questions; I'm trying to boil it down.

I'm very glad to hear you stressing the importance of human rights and rule of law and so on, but I want to start with what potentially is an embarrassment, something we need to really deal with.

You will know that we had the privilege of meeting with Préval in Haiti with his senior adviser, Jacques Edouard Alexis. When Préval came to Canada just before his inauguration, Alexis was barred from entering Canada--to the monumental embarrassment, I think, of Canada--because he's supposedly “blacklisted”. I wonder if you can clarify exactly what that means.

Subsequently, by overwhelming majority of both the Senate and Parliament, Alexis was ratified as Préval's designate as prime minister. I'm just wondering if you can speak to how we're going to clean up our act in that regard and what it means.

Secondly, I share the guarded optimism, I really do. There's been a real sense of celebration thus far, based on the hope that people expressed, but at the same time, just horrendous human rights violations continue, including the imprisonment of political prisoners who have never been charged with anything. It seemed to me when we were there that one of the undercurrents is the need for that to be dealt with in a very serious way. Neptune, for instance, remains imprisoned. I had clear signals from people that he would be released before the inauguration. That appears not to have happened. I wonder what Canada is doing in that regard.

Thirdly, I think what we're attempting to do in terms of penal reform, in terms of prison reform, and in terms of judicial performance is very important. I have to say that I wasn't surprised to see, on the eve of the inauguration, a major riot in certainly the worst penitentiary I've seen in my life. I haven't seen great numbers, but these had absolutely unbelievable conditions. Teenagers who may have stolen chickens to save their families from starvation are imprisoned together with political prisoners--guilty of who knows what, and never charged with anything--together with murderers and drug dealers. Nobody really knows who is guilty of what, because nobody has ever been charged. We saw conditions in a prison where, to meet international standards, there should be four or six prisoners, but there were forty people there. They could barely stand up, and were allowed out for one hour a day from those conditions. I just wonder if you could speak specifically to that.

Finally, I want to say how impressed I was by the leadership shown by our police, by our military, by a small number of officials there. It was very refreshing to hear them making the point that security and economic development are interrelated. They pleaded the case, really, for both poverty reduction and environmental remediation. As they pointed out, we could end up salvaging a country that's unsustainable if we don't turn to that, which of course can be job-intensive.

I know I've raised four questions there. I would appreciate your comments.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. McDonough, I know that you've gone the distance as far as your travels to Haiti go, but also your very in-depth interest in all aspects of Haitian society and the problems that exist. I'm glad you referenced environmental remediation, because that will be one of the enormous challenges they face: reforestation, replantation. Some of the run-off, as I understand it, of the land itself into the ocean as a result of the environmental degradation that has taken place in that country is also a longer-term challenge that will require a specific plan where I think Canada might very well...and it's one of the areas that doesn't receive a lot of attention, perhaps because it's not seen as pressing.

On the human rights issue, I couldn't agree more. Canada again, I think, can show a leadership role. The United Nations, as you know, is undergoing their own reform in the area of setting up a human rights council, and I think they will in very short order be pressed and called upon to play a more active role there.

The specific cases you mentioned, including the newly appointed Haitian prime minister, Alexis, shall we say, is a very delicate matter, to say the least. I'm choosing my words very carefully because, due to privacy legislation here, we cannot comment on the specifics of the case. There are issues right now with Citizenship and Immigration Canada that have prevented thus far the issuance of a visa, even for a visitor's purpose. But there is discretion there that can be exercised. I'm hopeful that this is something we will be able to sort out in the near future.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

But doesn't the prime minister face charges to which he can defend himself? Or are we falling into the same horrors of the lawlessness--

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

This is the challenge.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

--the lack of rule of law that have resulted in political prisoners? I don't think we need another chapter like this one.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Well, we certainly don't. But as I understand it--and there is much detail that's a bit sketchy because of the lack of due process and of a judicial system that operates fully in a manner to which we're accustomed--these are just allegations. So we are trying to walk that fine line between respecting Haiti's position on this and making our own independent assessment.

We are essentially in the position of basing our decision on entrance, for visa purposes, on information that's being provided to us by Haiti, which may or may not be accurate, because it hasn't been put to the test in a normal judicial hearing.

I don't think anyone would suggest that we should make the decision without input from authorities in Haiti. The problem is that because of their system of law, and even, as you know, because of the fragile state of their current parliament, which it is trying to set up and get in place, they don't have a justice minister; they don't have a foreign minister with whom I can engage in these discussions. I am hopeful that much of this is going to be alleviated when they have at least a functioning government and cabinet in place.

I'm answering this to the best of my ability without trying to put you off. But I'm suggesting that it will take time for us to be able to engage in a meaningful way with the government itself about its prime minister, which is a real anomaly, to say the least. But he was democratically put in place, which we have to respect.

There are other examples in the past of leaders who have faced similar accusations within their own countries. I think Mr. Martin is aware of some of those cases where African leaders have faced similar charges and have been permitted to come to Canada. So based on information that we have, and out of respect for the country in question, we have to make an informed decision. I think that in fairness, if this is an issue you want to pursue further, I'd certainly refer you to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. But he and I and others will be discussing this issue in the future.

On the equally delicate question of Mr. Neptune, this is again an issue that Canada has pursued. We've raised this issue. We continue to do so. Mr. Neptune, I also understand, is in the very vulnerable and difficult position of having deteriorating health problems while he's incarcerated.

You're right, there were undertakings given that he was going to be released, or at the very least given an opportunity to face an independent judicial hearing in proximity of the new government being sworn in. That has not been the case. But Canada has repeatedly raised this and will continue to do so. I will undertake to make inquiries when we go to the Dominican, and I'll be speaking directly to the president in the coming days.

You had a few other questions about prison reform and judicial reform. Having a legal system that operates, allowing the adversarial process to work, is all part of that overall capacity building that is still under way. I think Canada, as we have in the policing area, can show leadership, perhaps by dispatching personnel there. I think we have a very highly functioning and successful judicial system that Haiti can look to as a model. We have judges, both active, current judges and those who are retired, who I think are more than willing to share their expertise and their experience. So it's a matter of getting them there, or even perhaps having members of the Haitian judiciary come here, to engage in that exercise of training.

But I think most importantly, and what I've heard from you and others who've attended, and those within my own department who have been to Haiti, is that there is perhaps a growing sense of optimism in spite of all the.... My cell phone ring was very apropos to lighthearted music and a sense of optimism.

It shouldn't be false hope that we bestow upon the Haitian people. It's still going to take an incredibly important investment in so many of these areas. It's not just money, as you know. It's not simply a matter of turning over the funds and telling them to fix it themselves and use the money in their own discretion. I think there will have to be a lot of assistance in making the right decisions as to where the investments are best spent, both human resources and the financial commitment and, back to Madame Lalonde's point, giving the Haitian people a sense that they are taking charge of their own future. That, I think, will also build national pride and a sense of accomplishment.

I saw that. You and others had a chance to meet with René Préval. He strikes me as a man of great conviction, of great determination and a willingness to see his government do what others have failed to do, which is to finally succeed in pulling Haiti out of this spiral they've been in for decades.

I think the optimism is good, but it's really going to take a lot of continued sustained heavy lifting on the part of Canada and all the international partners, in particular those who are on the ground doing that work. The very least the Canadian government can do is continue to support them in every way possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. MacKay.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

I hope you won't use...[Inaudible--Editor]...as an example of how to create quality jobs. I just have to say that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Very quickly, I'm going to take a very quick question from the opposition side.

Mr. Wilfert.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Minister, you talked about assessing objectives, and I think there's no question that a lot of hope is now in the new president. The issue, as you know from our past discussions, has focused on the capacity building at the local level. Are there instruments that we currently have not been using?

We look at things like environmental degradation and how we can improve basic sanitation and water issues, issues dealing with employment and long-term employment strategies. Are there approaches--I have to condense this, given the chairman's indulgence--that we can be using that we may not have put on the table, that either you or the department may be assessing in order to do this? Clearly, a significant amount of dollars, over $600 million over the last 20-odd years, hasn't solved the problem. We can't do it alone. But are we, in conjunction with others, looking at that?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Wilfert, I appreciate your question. I also appreciate some of the very positive suggestions and contributions you've made on this subject and others.

The short answer is yes. I think that CIDA, in particular, is canvassing a whole array of areas in which they can assist in environmental areas, in areas of investment around the economy and capacity building, some of the basics you've mentioned that we take so much for granted. I think of clean water, sanitation, infrastructure, road building, access, being able to go to and from a town or village or city to seek employment, to say nothing of being able to secure a job.

All of those basics are being constantly assessed by CIDA officials in conjunction with the international community and, perhaps more importantly, the NGOs that are there, the Red Cross, the efforts of many independent groups that are partnering. Doing that assessment is what will lead Canada to make important decisions about where to invest both human and financial resources.

I also expect that the important work of this committee will assist Canada in making accurate and correct decisions when it comes to CIDA's continued support for the people of Haiti.

Again, I commend members of the committee and I look forward to hearing from the report and from further witnesses who I know will be coming here with practical recommendations and an in-depth understanding, having been there. As for myself, I look forward to visiting Haiti and seeing the work of Canadians and to bringing some of the messages that have been underscored by members of the committee here today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Minister.

In closing, I would like to say that I think all Canadians, and certainly governments, have recognized that Haiti has been a frustration. For many years we've wanted to make a difference. Air Canada has made a huge difference there, but it seems that time after time there's disappointment. I think all parties wish we could do more to see real effective change. Even by you coming here today and talking about some of the fundamentals that we would like to see, I think there is reason for optimism, maybe short- and medium-term optimism.

I know you are always looking for new ways we can apply resources where they're needed, and maybe, as we go on with our study in this committee, we will be able to come up with some kind of report that would be advantageous to the department and to you.

Thank you and your department for being here.

We will suspend for just a few minutes, and then we have other guests, and we will continue with Haiti.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We will reconvene this meeting. I call the meeting back to order.

We're very pleased to have with us today Jean-Pierre Kingsley, Elections Canada's Chief Electoral Officer. We're also pleased to have Diane Davidson, the deputy chief electoral officer and chief legal counsel at Elections Canada.

As I was travelling down the road one day, Mr. Kingsley called me on my cell phone and asked if I would consider having Jacques Bernard, the director general of Haiti's interim electoral council. We're very pleased to have him with the committee today.

We want to welcome you.

We also have an observer to whom I would like to draw your attention: Robert Tippenhauer, Haiti's ambassador to Canada. He is an observer back there.

Welcome.

I also want to apologize for our late start, but certainly we are looking forward to what you have to say. We have your testimony here. We'll give you time for opening comments and then to field questions from our committee.

Welcome, Mr. Kingsley, Mr. Bernard, and Ms. Davidson.

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley, Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada]

Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

Since you've already introduced my good friend and colleague Mr. Jacques Bernard, as well as my friend and colleague from Elections Canada, I'll proceed and get into my text.

I will being in my mother tongue, and then I will switch to English.

It is a privilege for me to appear before this committee. I believe that this is the first time in several seasons since I have been in this position, that I am appearing before the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Today I will discuss briefly the International Mission for Monitoring Haitian Elections (IMMHE), of which I am chair. I will review the beginnings of the IMMHE, the basic elements of the IMMHE model and what the mission accomplished. Like the International Mission for Iraqi Elections, set up in December 2004, the IMMHE represents a novel approach to international election monitoring and assessment. This innovative model on which the two missions are built focuses on the sustainability of democratic electoral processes and electoral systems, and the longer-term task of building the capacity of the country's electoral management bodies. The mission's approach is one of accompaniment—providing reports and advice on a continuous basis to the electoral management body: the Provisional Electoral Council or Conseil électoral provisoire.

The independence of the electoral authority is an essential characteristic. Such an approach cannot succeed if electoral management bodies are not at arm's length of the country's political authority.

This accompaniment is based on respect for the culture and history of the country. This is a very important element that we can discuss further. This approach is in continuation with the kind of partnerships Elections Canada has developed in the past, such as with Mexico's Federal Electoral Institute, since 1992.

In addition, it provides a base on which to build future cooperation and facilitates follow-up to recommendations, promoting standards of good practice in electoral administration.

Another unique feature of the mission is in its Steering Committee, made up of independent electoral management bodies from across the Americas. The independence that each member of the Steering Committee possesses in its own country bestows credibility and allows the mission to play an accompanying role—that is, provide ongoing guidance in developing the most appropriate electoral rules, a sound legal framework and effective administrative processes. Using internationally recognized standards and practices, the mission relies on in-depth expert assessments of numerous elements of the electoral process before, during and after the elections. These include: legal framework, voter registration, access to media and a complaints process. A total of 13 elements were examined—the full list is available on the IMMHE Web site. I will provide you with the address later on.

The model has worked well in bringing together two types of electoral expertise—that is, combining scholarly analysis with the store of experience and knowledge of leading practitioners.

I will now turn to the beginnings of the International Mission for Monitoring Haitian Elections. In the spring of 2005, I was approached by the Department of Foreign Affairs and CIDA to explore the possibility of setting up an international election monitoring mission in Haiti. It was felt that there was a need to foster international support for the forthcoming presidential, legislative and municipal elections, which at that time were expected to take place in autumn 2005. Given Elections Canada's credentials, including our independence, our previous cooperation with Haiti (in the 1990s), and our excellent relations with other electoral management bodies across the Americas, I was asked to set up a similar model to what we had established for the Iraqi elections.

On June 15-16, an international forum was held in Montreal, under the auspices of Elections Canada. Participants included representatives of election management bodies from across the Americas, as well as the CEP, and representatives of the Organization of American States and the United Nations Stabilization Mission in Haiti. Following two days of discussions, the heads of eight independent electoral management bodies from Brazil, Canada, Chile, Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Mexico, Panama, and the United States formed a Steering Committee and agreed on structure and aims of the mission. That was the goal of the two-day forum. It was thus that the IMMHE was established.

I will now switch to English.

In early August 2005, the IMMHE established a secretariat in Port-au-Prince. Beginning in September of the same year, long-term observers were deployed throughout the country, two teams of two in 10 areas of the country, and provided weekly updates to the steering committee. In addition, expert assessors conducted in-depth studies of the 13 aspects that I've discussed over the elections.

The mission further deployed some 130 short-term election observers for both the February 7 and the April 21 rounds of elections. They were drawn from Canada principally, as well as from CARICOM countries and a small number from Japan. We coordinated with other observation missions in Haiti, both international and domestic, to ensure maximum coverage throughout the country. Of course, we constituted the major international mission in Haiti.

The IMMHE has issued several statements and reports, beginning in October 2005, with its interim assessment report, which examined the legal framework, the voter registration system, and electoral preparations. The most recent report was issued on April 24, shortly after the second round of legislative elections. We are now preparing the final report, which is to be released in the coming weeks.

All of the reports from our group are available on the website, and the address is in the notes that I provided to you in five languages. You will have understood that it's in English, French, Creole, Spanish, and Portuguese.

I brought along copies of those reports in English and French for committee members. They are available to you through the clerk.

The IMMHE worked very closely with the CEP, and more particularly with its director general, Monsieur Jacques Bernard. I would say that the emphasis should be on our relationship with Mr. Bernard throughout the whole procedure, since his assumption of responsibilities in late October, if I remember correctly. His leadership since that time has provided the momentum to ensure that electoral preparations were carried out and to coordinate the contributions of all stakeholders, including the OAS and the MINUSTAH. We provided advice and made substantive recommendations throughout the process through the good offices of Mr. Bernard.

Special mention can be made regarding our coordination with MINUSTAH, which was crucial in addressing security needs, a real concern for all of us, especially for the first round, as I'm sure some members will remember.

I would like to underline the excellent collaboration that the MINUSTAH leadership provided to us, especially through Juan Gabriel Valdés, as well as Gerardo Le Chevalier.

I would like to recognize the important role played by the OAS, which was responsible for setting up the voters list that registered voluntarily 3.5 million Haitians out of a total eligible population of 4.5 million, and for the leadership provided in that respect by a fellow Canadian, Elizabeth Spehar. She did this in her OAS capacity, not her Canadian capacity.

Another significant accomplishment of the mission was the involvement of CARICOM, and I wanted to underline that. It became an integral part of the mission, in good part due to the involvement of Danville Walker, the chief electoral officer of Jamaica, who is also vice-chair of the steering committee. On a number of occasions, he went to Haiti independent of our group, in light of his vice-chairmanship. For that, I am grateful to him.

I must say that bringing CARICOM into the picture, even though not as a formal step in the international community, has resulted in what we consider to be greatly improved prospects for Haiti's reintegration into the region.

The IMMHE has succeeded in attracting attention, by the way, beyond the region itself. When I met with U.K. foreign office officials in March of this year, dealing principally with our mission in Iraq, by the way, they expressed great interest and support for what we were doing in Haiti.

Officials from la Francophonie, with whom we also had special relationships, were also very pleased. Colonel Sangaré, who was on the ground in Haiti until recently, represented la Francophonie, as well as Madam Christine Desouches, who is responsible for electoral democracy matters for the la Francophonie.

In my view--and I'm here to discuss that--the IMMHE has provided an effective means of addressing both the short-term need to verify the legitimacy and the legality of the elections and the long-term need to foster democratization by strengthening the capacity of the Haitian electoral commission.

I suspect, Mr. Chair, that you would like to hear from my good friend and colleague Mr. Jacques Bernard at this time, before we go to the exchange portion of this visit.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Kingsley.

Mr. Bernard, just to help us a little more, please tell us how long your statement will be.

[Jacques Bernard, Director General, Interim Electoral Council of Haiti]

Maybe five minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Okay, just take your time. Mr. Bernard.

[Jacques Bernard]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to follow in the path of my good friend Jean-Pierre Kingsley and start in English, and then I'll switch to French later on.

Let me start by thanking the members of the committee for the opportunity to address them. I would also like to extend my thanks to the people of Canada, who have graciously agreed to contribute to the financing of Haitian elections. And of course, my special thanks to Mr. Jean-Pierre Kingsley and his team of both long-term and short-term observers for their advice and help to the Haitian provisional electoral council. They have contributed significantly to the success of the two rounds of elections.

These elections were very different from any previous elections in Haiti. One can say with certainty that they truly reflect the will of the Haitian people in that both the president and parliament were legitimately elected. I am glad to report that no one in Haiti contested the legitimacy of the polling process. The electoral process was transparent and open to all political parties as well as domestic and foreign observers.

While it is not possible here to describe the process in its entirety, we think it is necessary to highlight some of the new features that truly differentiate this election from any held previously in Haiti. We will mention only six innovations: the identify card, the electoral list, the voting centres, the tabulation centre, publication on the Internet, and the legal challenges to the results.

The identity card. I think it is very important to talk about the identity card, because for the first time in the history of Haiti we have registered 3.5 million citizens out of 4.5 million potential voters. The card is not only a voting card; it is also an identity card, and it's supposed to last 10 years, so we will be able to use it in subsequent elections. The card has not only the picture of the individual but also their fingerprint. When we did the matching of all 3.5 million fingerprints, we found only 5,000 duplicates. So to that extent, it was a very successful operation. Let me also point out that out of that 3.5 million people, 600,000 never had any documents to identify them positively as Haitian citizens. I think it is remarkable. It is almost a revolution in the history of Haiti.

From the data generated from the identity card, we built an electoral list that has not only the picture of the individual but also, in a bar code, the number of the identity card. So when the voters go to vote they can be identified not only by the identity card but also from the picture that is on the electoral list. A voter would sign next to his picture so that he wouldn't be able to vote twice. I think these are very significant innovations, because never before have we had them in any Haitian election.

Voting centres. Traditionally in Haiti we had about 13,000 polling stations, and nobody had any control of them. We had 13,000 polls, and we didn't have the logistical capability to monitor them. But what we did this time was to work them into 802 voting centres so that the CEP as an institution had the capability to monitor the 802 voting centres, and the observers, both domestic and international, were able to be there at one voting centre and monitor maybe 20, 30, 40, even 50 polling stations within the voting centres. Also, from a security point of view for the observers and for the CEP, it was a fantastic idea. But I'll tell you, the politicians were very much against it because they said the people would not walk so far to vote. But I think the numbers proved them wrong, because 63% of the eligible voters voted in the first round of elections.

Then we developed what we call the tabulation centre, which is a centre where we bring all the reports to compile them. It is very important because traditionally in Haiti that is where fraud is committed. But this time we controlled it. We entered the data twice by two independent operators, with no possibility of collusion between the operators, and only when the numbers matched would they go down to the servers to be compiled.

So we think this election legitimately reflects the will of the Haitian people. But in addition to that, we published all the reports on the Internet, not only the results of the election but each individual report per polling station, so that the candidate could sit in the comfort of his living room and compile his own results. And I think most of the Haitians overseas who are interested in what's going on in Haiti were very appreciative of the fact that they could go to the Internet on a daily basis and follow the election almost hour by hour.

The last thing I want to talk about is the legal challenges of the results. Before, the electoral council in any previous election would just announce the winner. This time the losers in the election could challenge the results in two different courts. They can go to a first level of tribunal at the departmental level, and if they're not satisfied with the outcome they can go to a second level of tribunal at the national level. And I must say that we did give a number of people who challenged the results the chance to present themselves. Once the rulings were made we didn't have any more challenges, nor did we have any more complaints in terms of the results published by the CEP.

So all in all, I think these elections were very legitimate, and I would say that the contribution of the IMMHE observation mission was significant to the success of these elections, because at the CEP we developed a working relationship with them, and it was a two-way relationship. We would give them information and they would tell us what they saw in the field, and that would allow us to correct a lot of mistakes in the field. Contrary to the other observation missions, we had a much closer relationship with IMMHE, and I must give it credit because, very frankly, it truly contributed to the success of the elections.

Now that we have a president and we have a parliament, unfortunately the process is not complete. We still have the local elections. The local elections can be divided into four categories: the municipal election for the mayors, the ASEC, CASEC, and the town delegates.

For the ASEC, CASEC, and town delegates, it's very difficult now to have this election, for a number of reasons. Number one, I will have to do a lot of redistricting. Number two, there is no legal framework for these people to operate, because we never had them before in Haiti. They came with the 1987 constitution, but for whatever reason, the Government of Haiti has always neglected to create the legal framework for these elected officials to operate. Number three, frankly, that would add about 9,000 more civil servants to the payroll of the government, a government that cannot even pay the people who are currently working in Haiti.

So there are problems that will have to be resolved before we can do the ASEC, the CASEC, and the town delegates.

For municipalities, I believe that it is absolutely necessary to hold elections for several reasons.

In Haiti, we have 142 communes, and there is a mayor for each commune. Therefore, there are 142 mayors in Haiti. This government structure has always existed. This legal framework has always existed, and there have always been mayors in Haiti.

What happens in Haiti when mayors are not elected? When mayors are not elected, the Department of the Interior appoints mayors. Once they are appointed, the mayors are answerable to the Department of the Interior. This situation is the most significant source of corruption in Haiti because taxes are collected by the communes and then funnelled to Port-au-Prince rather than remaining in the commune to serve the area's residents.

I believe, therefore, that it is absolutely necessary to hold municipal elections, even more so when mayors are appointed. The executive not only has political control over the country through the mayors, but it also has financial control over the whole country.

If we want to save the work that has already been done, it is absolutely necessary to hold elections as soon as possible so that the executive is not tempted to appoint mayors. I have been fighting for some time now to hold these elections.

I am coming back from Washington and I must tell you that we held several meetings with the State Department to encourage the Americans to help us finance these elections, because funding remains one of our most significant problems. The Americans have answered positively by giving us a certain amount, but we do not have all that we need to win these elections.

Given that you are privileged partners in the electoral process, through Mr. Kingsley and the International Mission for Monitoring Haitian Elections, I must insist on saying that if we want to save the work that has already been done, we must absolutely, as soon as possible, organize municipal elections.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bernard and Mr. Kingsley.

We will go into the first round and we will have five-minute rounds. Mr. Martin.

Okay, Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I wish to congratulate you on the recent elections, and I congratulate Mr. Bernard in particular.

I am familiar with Haiti, because I travelled there several times over the last 15 years. I visited areas such as Île de la Tortue and Île à Vaches. How do you deliver ballots to these remote areas?

[Jacques Bernard]

They are transported by helicopter. Non-delicate materials—booth dividers, pencils, and so on—are delivered by automobile. Between 24 and 48 hours before election day, delicate materials, including ballots, are distributed. The ballots are kept at the MINUSTAH military base. Therefore, we distributed the ballots first at the MINUSTAH military base well before election day, and one or two days before the elections, the ballots are collected at the MINUSTAH military base and taken by helicopter to remote areas.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

How many polling stations are there throughout the country?

[Jacques Bernard]

We have 802 voting centres, and we have approximately 10,000 polling stations within those 802 voting centres.